WFMU: Techtonic with Mark Hurst: Playlist from August 23, 2021

Listener comments!
	6:00pm ultradamno: Mark! Techtontitty Planners!
	6:01pm listener james from westwood: Howdy, Mark and all!
	6:01pm ARB: Hallo Mark and Shannon and other kindred spirits!
	🤖 6:02pm DjLorraine: Hi friends. Traveling thru some states the rest areas had signs that said they were monitoring. Not so restful areas.
	🤖 6:02pm tim from washington: Hey Mark! Hello Tech Tockers!
	6:02pm WR: Double Dip Techtonic!
	6:02pm P-90: This episode was listed in “Upcoming Special Programs” so I expect it to be really special.
	🤖 6:03pm Webhamster Henry: Hi Mark! more music this week? I can get yer link. www.wfmu.org...
	6:03pm P-90: Mark gets my vote for “DDR Regular Guest Host”
	🤖 6:03pm Ken From Hyde Park: Hello, Mark and Techtocrats!
	6:05pm TDK60: Hi Mark.
	6:06pm HyperDose: Plugged in!
	6:06pm P-90: “versioning” -a verb for the 21st century
	🤖 6:08pm Ken From Hyde Park: Sounds like a similar plan is going on in Poughkeepsie - www.poughkeepsiejournal.com... ("Uncharted Power turning Poughkeepsie to a smart city through sidewalks, roads, tech")
	6:09pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: Must always be New Versions - & never retro-compatible of course. & always for their own sake.
	6:09pm P-90: Wait, you mean Google has never disclosed all of the capabilities of those LinkNYC kiosks? It’s a secret?
	6:10pm headcleaner: Fun medium post from 2019: "Keep your internet off my things" - medium.com...
	6:11pm jeanli: YAY SHANNON!
	🤖 6:13pm Bas NL: Hi Mark! Connected ones!
	6:14pm Mark Hurst: @ultra @james @ARB @Lorraine @Tim @WR @P-90 @Webham @KfHP @TDK60 @HyperDose @RevRabbit @headcleaner @jean @Bas hi hi hi hi!! Thanks for joining!
	6:14pm ultradamno: I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhäuser Gate. All those moments waiting to be computed
	🤖 6:15pm Webhamster Henry: I'm a HUGE Christopher Alexander fan .
	6:15pm Mark Hurst: @P-90 it's true, one of the docs acquired about LinkNYC mentioned dozens of sensors, but (beyond a few, like a wifi sniffer) the public has never found out what all of them are. AFAIK there's not yet been a privacy audit, either (a point that came up a couple of years in the NY state legislature, if I remember right).
	6:16pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: ultrad - I prefer to consider myself more of a RepliCan than a Replicant...
	6:17pm ultradamno: Way to see the electric sheep as half charged!
	6:18pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: Monoculture. Here we go again being the exact reverse of the Decentralized & personally empowering society computers & the interwebz were going to bring us...
	6:19pm Androu B.: Greets, Techheads! Any product with the word "smart" attached to it can have subliminally treacherous purposes integrated into it, with the exception of general use products such as batteries or phone cases. @P-90 That shouldn't be a surprise to you by now after all that Mark has already reported about Google's affairs so far.
	6:19pm Mark Hurst: I love that detail, that Hudson Yards had to force the trees to grow their roots horizontally, rather than vertically like normal trees. I'm sure the trees were delighted.
	6:19pm headcleaner: "Computation" is indeed omnipresent in nature, but it's just another physical process - like thermodynamics. or the basic physical laws of chemistry. So to say that "everything is computation" is just as vacuous as saying "everything is thermodynamics".
	🤖 6:20pm Bas NL: Smart soil...
	6:20pm Carmichael: "It is what it is." My favorite non-statement.
	6:21pm Richy4619: I have been greatly disturbed by the continuous use of my neighborhood in San Francisco as a training ground for Google's self-driving vehicle project (Waymo). Their cars are EVERYWHERE. It is particularly spooky to observe them driving through our empty streets late at night.
	6:21pm yippie: thats why the tallest bike in the world is called STOOPIDTALLER
	🤖 6:21pm Ken From Hyde Park: Smart BS™
	6:23pm Megaroni: Not surprising to connect that Sidewalk Labs has their office in that soulless part of town
	6:25pm yippie: is it smart or is it resmarted?
	6:27pm Marci: I’m glad to say I have never set foot anywhere near HY- yet I can’t avoid those sidewalk surveillance kiosks
	6:29pm Whoopsy: Hudson Yards also has that sculpture that draws suicides
	6:29pm jeanli: Ok that is SO HUNGER GAMES.
	6:29pm yippie: and the escalator is overlong!
	🤖 6:30pm Bas NL: Resistance is futile. You are one of us.
	6:30pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: What are you saying ...the Borg is not Transparent & OptIn ?!? Man are you a Subversive.
	6:31pm yippie: but the architect has a cute haircut
	🤖 6:31pm tim from washington: That type of convenience sounds so hectic. It's fine to be habituated but it's really scary thinking about forcing the hand of habituation.
	6:32pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: What Are People For
	6:32pm hoohoo: All needs anticipated and provided for. A future only a consumer pod person would love.
	6:33pm jeanli: Eliminate Friction, ha. F-R-I-C-TION!
	🤖 6:33pm tim from washington: Bjorn Borg is transparent? No wonder he was a tennis whiz.
	🤖 6:33pm Bas NL: Borg is inclusive!
	6:34pm Micheal: Hudson Yards is for people who would otherwise be living in Kansas City, Minneapolis or some other second-tier city. It ain’t New York.
	🤖 6:35pm Ken From Hyde Park: Let's say all I wanted was a Pepsi. Would the drone give it to me?
	6:36pm Carmichael: And that's when Skynet became aware.
	6:36pm Eya Wacity: As a librarian, it's nice to see someone acknowledge what's possible
	6:36pm jeanli: YAY Libraries
	6:36pm Mark Hurst: @Eya welcome!
	6:37pm yippie: the drones gonna shoot the pepsi in your nose
	6:37pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: Libraries are familiar w/ dealing w/ civili rights & free speech issues.
	🤖 6:39pm Bas NL: Books are futile. Google will service us.
	🤖 6:39pm tim from washington: As a public library employee and who is not a librarian, I think Shannon captured very accurately what is happening in libraries and discussions about the mission of libraries.
	🤖 6:40pm Ken From Hyde Park: Wait, isn't Amazon out to corner the market on book delivery?
	6:40pm yippie: you can ask the ants living in los angeles where you can pepsi in aluminum or glass
	🤖 6:41pm tim from washington: "and who is not a librarian" I mean that I'm not a librarian.
	6:42pm WR: Right, @6:39 @Bas NL, Google has already started trying to obstruct libraries access to digital rights for publications.
	6:42pm WR: Oops, I meant to say that about Amazon.
	6:45pm Eya Wacity: There's actually a lot of bullshit gatekeeping in the profession of librarianship. The credential (MLIS) is expensive and the holders can be insecure. All library workers are essential
	6:45pm Androu B.: The very reason I never bought into all the hype over iPhone.
	🤖 6:45pm Bas NL: In our university all publications are entered in a commercial, payed database. If not entered it is not counted as a publication by the university.
	6:47pm kevlicki: Hi mark and all. Late to the party. Wearing my techtonic sign off shirt today
	6:48pm Carmichael: Dang Tim, I had so many Dewey Decimal questions ....
	6:49pm Eya Wacity.: That sucks, Bas. Especially when there are so many non-commercial repositories available for archiving and public dissemination
	6:50pm Roland from Australia: I very much like the idea’s around libraries, forward thinking for sure, very much highlighting the inadequacies of big tech.
	🤖 6:51pm Folsom: uh oh, Mark is conjuring poster Bigfoot
	🤖 6:51pm Bas NL: @Eya Wacity It has generated a lot of discussion; especially with PhDs. They need to pay for the database to give proof of their publications.
	6:52pm Roland from Australia: @kevlicky nice shirt 👕 I where mine often.
	🤖 6:53pm DjLorraine: Thank you Mark Hurst and Shannon Mattern
	🤖 6:53pm tim from washington: @Carmichael - who's Dewey Decimal? Never heard of the guy? ;)
	6:53pm coelacanth∅: i've never seen these gobble kiosks. can they be reached with paint rollers?
	6:54pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: TY As Ever
	🤖 6:54pm tim from washington: Thanks, Mark and Shannon. I'm going to put in a purchase request for Shannon book at my library.
	6:54pm listener james from westwood: Thanks, Mark!
	🤖 6:55pm Bas NL: Thanks Mark! Thanks Shannon!
	6:55pm Androu B.: Heading off to PLU now. Bye all!
	6:55pm ultradamno: I would hope the high rise is soulless
	6:55pm Richy4619: Nice, Tim! Direct impactful action. Power to the library assistants!
	6:55pm Roland from Australia: Hey there is still five minutes!!! Keep talking :) love the show!!!
	🤖 6:55pm Ken From Hyde Park: I likely won't visit NYC for a few months. Is there a Hudson Yards app I could install?
	6:56pm Greg from ZONE 5: Thanks Mark!
	6:56pm People Like Us: thanks Mark!
	6:56pm coelacanth∅: but i like the idea that for a moment a drone would be within reach, to be pulled down and stomped into the sidewalk -before pouring shitty starfucks coffee into it
	6:57pm Jeff Moore: "Enjoyed" is a funny word, isn't it?
	6:57pm listener james from westwood: When I first heard Ziggy's track here I thought it was about that British sci-fi series from the ’70s.
	6:58pm Eya Wacity: @Bas. Ed tech surveillance is the fucking worst
	6:59pm headcleaner: Or get out of your chair and patronize your local independent (and hopefully decades-old) coffee shop!
	6:59pm Androu B.: Btw, today marks the 10th anniversary of the Virginia earthquake felt all around the East Coast and Midwest.
	7:00pm listener james from westwood: They're still repairing a cathedral in DC damaged in that quake! Unreal.
	🤖 7:00pm Bas NL: @Eya Wacity The lesson is you can succeed in science if you pay through your nose..
	7:01pm Mark Hurst: Thanks, everyone!
	7:04pm WR: thank you Mark!

Techtonic with Mark Hurst: Playlist from August 23, 2021

View Mark Hurst's profile

Conversations with creators and thinkers who are charting the way forward in a tech-saturated society. In our shift to a digital future, we need alternatives to Big Tech. Homepage: techtonic.fm

Also available as an MP3 podcast. More info at our Podcast Central page.

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Upcoming events:

Mon. Dec 30th, 6pm - 7pm: Andrew Smith, author, "Devil in the Stack" (More info...)
Writer Andrew Smith decided to learn computer programming in his 50s. What happened next is captured in his book "Devil in the Stack: A Code Odyssey," and wide-ranging tour through computer history, neuroscience, and the friendliest programming language.

August 23, 2021: Shannon Mattern, author, "A City Is Not a Computer"

Listen to this show: Pop-up listen Pop-up player!

Today: Shannon Mattern, author, "A City Is Not a Computer: Other Urban Intelligences"

Links:

• A City Is Not a Computer: Other Urban Intelligences - available at Princeton University Press with 30% discount using discount code ACNC.

• @shannonmattern (Twitter)

• wordsinspace.net, Mattern's site where she posts most of her publications and course materials, and upcoming events.

• Mattern's original Places Journal article (February 2017) arguing that "a city is not a computer."

• Wired magazine review of Mattern's book (Aug 10, 2021)

• Starbucks customer gets drink order delivered via flying drone (Insider, July 27, 2021): the dystopian vision gets demo'd

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Artist	Track	Approx. start time
Tomaš Dvořák	Game Boy Tune "Game Boy Tune" by "Tomaš Dvořák"	0:00:00 (Pop-up)
	Mark's intro "Mark's intro"
	Interview with Shannon Mattern "Interview with Shannon Mattern"	0:09:11 (Pop-up)
	Mark's comments "Mark's comments"	0:43:58 (Pop-up)
Ziggy Marley & The Melody Makers	Tomorrow People	0:54:35 (Pop-up)
Shannon Mattern, author, "A City Is Not a Computer"

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Listener comments!
	6:00pm ultradamno: Mark! Techtontitty Planners!
	6:01pm listener james from westwood: Howdy, Mark and all!
	6:01pm ARB: Hallo Mark and Shannon and other kindred spirits!
	🤖 6:02pm DjLorraine: Hi friends. Traveling thru some states the rest areas had signs that said they were monitoring. Not so restful areas.
	🤖 6:02pm tim from washington: Hey Mark! Hello Tech Tockers!
	6:02pm WR: Double Dip Techtonic!
	6:02pm P-90: This episode was listed in “Upcoming Special Programs” so I expect it to be really special.
	🤖 6:03pm Webhamster Henry: Hi Mark! more music this week? I can get yer link. www.wfmu.org...
	6:03pm P-90: Mark gets my vote for “DDR Regular Guest Host”
	🤖 6:03pm Ken From Hyde Park: Hello, Mark and Techtocrats!
	6:05pm TDK60: Hi Mark.
	6:06pm HyperDose: Plugged in!
	6:06pm P-90: “versioning” -a verb for the 21st century
	🤖 6:08pm Ken From Hyde Park: Sounds like a similar plan is going on in Poughkeepsie - www.poughkeepsiejournal.com... ("Uncharted Power turning Poughkeepsie to a smart city through sidewalks, roads, tech")
	6:09pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: Must always be New Versions - & never retro-compatible of course. & always for their own sake.
	6:09pm P-90: Wait, you mean Google has never disclosed all of the capabilities of those LinkNYC kiosks? It’s a secret?
	6:10pm headcleaner: Fun medium post from 2019: "Keep your internet off my things" - medium.com...
	6:11pm jeanli: YAY SHANNON!
	🤖 6:13pm Bas NL: Hi Mark! Connected ones!
	6:14pm Mark Hurst: @ultra @james @ARB @Lorraine @Tim @WR @P-90 @Webham @KfHP @TDK60 @HyperDose @RevRabbit @headcleaner @jean @Bas hi hi hi hi!! Thanks for joining!
	6:14pm ultradamno: I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhäuser Gate. All those moments waiting to be computed
	🤖 6:15pm Webhamster Henry: I'm a HUGE Christopher Alexander fan .
	6:15pm Mark Hurst: @P-90 it's true, one of the docs acquired about LinkNYC mentioned dozens of sensors, but (beyond a few, like a wifi sniffer) the public has never found out what all of them are. AFAIK there's not yet been a privacy audit, either (a point that came up a couple of years in the NY state legislature, if I remember right).
	6:16pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: ultrad - I prefer to consider myself more of a RepliCan than a Replicant...
	6:17pm ultradamno: Way to see the electric sheep as half charged!
	6:18pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: Monoculture. Here we go again being the exact reverse of the Decentralized & personally empowering society computers & the interwebz were going to bring us...
	6:19pm Androu B.: Greets, Techheads! Any product with the word "smart" attached to it can have subliminally treacherous purposes integrated into it, with the exception of general use products such as batteries or phone cases. @P-90 That shouldn't be a surprise to you by now after all that Mark has already reported about Google's affairs so far.
	6:19pm Mark Hurst: I love that detail, that Hudson Yards had to force the trees to grow their roots horizontally, rather than vertically like normal trees. I'm sure the trees were delighted.
	6:19pm headcleaner: "Computation" is indeed omnipresent in nature, but it's just another physical process - like thermodynamics. or the basic physical laws of chemistry. So to say that "everything is computation" is just as vacuous as saying "everything is thermodynamics".
	🤖 6:20pm Bas NL: Smart soil...
	6:20pm Carmichael: "It is what it is." My favorite non-statement.
	6:21pm Richy4619: I have been greatly disturbed by the continuous use of my neighborhood in San Francisco as a training ground for Google's self-driving vehicle project (Waymo). Their cars are EVERYWHERE. It is particularly spooky to observe them driving through our empty streets late at night.
	6:21pm yippie: thats why the tallest bike in the world is called STOOPIDTALLER
	🤖 6:21pm Ken From Hyde Park: Smart BS™
	6:23pm Megaroni: Not surprising to connect that Sidewalk Labs has their office in that soulless part of town
	6:25pm yippie: is it smart or is it resmarted?
	6:27pm Marci: I’m glad to say I have never set foot anywhere near HY- yet I can’t avoid those sidewalk surveillance kiosks
	6:29pm Whoopsy: Hudson Yards also has that sculpture that draws suicides
	6:29pm jeanli: Ok that is SO HUNGER GAMES.
	6:29pm yippie: and the escalator is overlong!
	🤖 6:30pm Bas NL: Resistance is futile. You are one of us.
	6:30pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: What are you saying ...the Borg is not Transparent & OptIn ?!? Man are you a Subversive.
	6:31pm yippie: but the architect has a cute haircut
	🤖 6:31pm tim from washington: That type of convenience sounds so hectic. It's fine to be habituated but it's really scary thinking about forcing the hand of habituation.
	6:32pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: What Are People For
	6:32pm hoohoo: All needs anticipated and provided for. A future only a consumer pod person would love.
	6:33pm jeanli: Eliminate Friction, ha. F-R-I-C-TION!
	🤖 6:33pm tim from washington: Bjorn Borg is transparent? No wonder he was a tennis whiz.
	🤖 6:33pm Bas NL: Borg is inclusive!
	6:34pm Micheal: Hudson Yards is for people who would otherwise be living in Kansas City, Minneapolis or some other second-tier city. It ain’t New York.
	🤖 6:35pm Ken From Hyde Park: Let's say all I wanted was a Pepsi. Would the drone give it to me?
	6:36pm Carmichael: And that's when Skynet became aware.
	6:36pm Eya Wacity: As a librarian, it's nice to see someone acknowledge what's possible
	6:36pm jeanli: YAY Libraries
	6:36pm Mark Hurst: @Eya welcome!
	6:37pm yippie: the drones gonna shoot the pepsi in your nose
	6:37pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: Libraries are familiar w/ dealing w/ civili rights & free speech issues.
	🤖 6:39pm Bas NL: Books are futile. Google will service us.
	🤖 6:39pm tim from washington: As a public library employee and who is not a librarian, I think Shannon captured very accurately what is happening in libraries and discussions about the mission of libraries.
	🤖 6:40pm Ken From Hyde Park: Wait, isn't Amazon out to corner the market on book delivery?
	6:40pm yippie: you can ask the ants living in los angeles where you can pepsi in aluminum or glass
	🤖 6:41pm tim from washington: "and who is not a librarian" I mean that I'm not a librarian.
	6:42pm WR: Right, @6:39 @Bas NL, Google has already started trying to obstruct libraries access to digital rights for publications.
	6:42pm WR: Oops, I meant to say that about Amazon.
	6:45pm Eya Wacity: There's actually a lot of bullshit gatekeeping in the profession of librarianship. The credential (MLIS) is expensive and the holders can be insecure. All library workers are essential
	6:45pm Androu B.: The very reason I never bought into all the hype over iPhone.
	🤖 6:45pm Bas NL: In our university all publications are entered in a commercial, payed database. If not entered it is not counted as a publication by the university.
	6:47pm kevlicki: Hi mark and all. Late to the party. Wearing my techtonic sign off shirt today
	6:48pm Carmichael: Dang Tim, I had so many Dewey Decimal questions ....
	6:49pm Eya Wacity.: That sucks, Bas. Especially when there are so many non-commercial repositories available for archiving and public dissemination
	6:50pm Roland from Australia: I very much like the idea’s around libraries, forward thinking for sure, very much highlighting the inadequacies of big tech.
	🤖 6:51pm Folsom: uh oh, Mark is conjuring poster Bigfoot
	🤖 6:51pm Bas NL: @Eya Wacity It has generated a lot of discussion; especially with PhDs. They need to pay for the database to give proof of their publications.
	6:52pm Roland from Australia: @kevlicky nice shirt 👕 I where mine often.
	🤖 6:53pm DjLorraine: Thank you Mark Hurst and Shannon Mattern
	🤖 6:53pm tim from washington: @Carmichael - who's Dewey Decimal? Never heard of the guy? ;)
	6:53pm coelacanth∅: i've never seen these gobble kiosks. can they be reached with paint rollers?
	6:54pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: TY As Ever
	🤖 6:54pm tim from washington: Thanks, Mark and Shannon. I'm going to put in a purchase request for Shannon book at my library.
	6:54pm listener james from westwood: Thanks, Mark!
	🤖 6:55pm Bas NL: Thanks Mark! Thanks Shannon!
	6:55pm Androu B.: Heading off to PLU now. Bye all!
	6:55pm ultradamno: I would hope the high rise is soulless
	6:55pm Richy4619: Nice, Tim! Direct impactful action. Power to the library assistants!
	6:55pm Roland from Australia: Hey there is still five minutes!!! Keep talking :) love the show!!!
	🤖 6:55pm Ken From Hyde Park: I likely won't visit NYC for a few months. Is there a Hudson Yards app I could install?
	6:56pm Greg from ZONE 5: Thanks Mark!
	6:56pm People Like Us: thanks Mark!
	6:56pm coelacanth∅: but i like the idea that for a moment a drone would be within reach, to be pulled down and stomped into the sidewalk -before pouring shitty starfucks coffee into it
	6:57pm Jeff Moore: "Enjoyed" is a funny word, isn't it?
	6:57pm listener james from westwood: When I first heard Ziggy's track here I thought it was about that British sci-fi series from the ’70s.
	6:58pm Eya Wacity: @Bas. Ed tech surveillance is the fucking worst
	6:59pm headcleaner: Or get out of your chair and patronize your local independent (and hopefully decades-old) coffee shop!
	6:59pm Androu B.: Btw, today marks the 10th anniversary of the Virginia earthquake felt all around the East Coast and Midwest.
	7:00pm listener james from westwood: They're still repairing a cathedral in DC damaged in that quake! Unreal.
	🤖 7:00pm Bas NL: @Eya Wacity The lesson is you can succeed in science if you pay through your nose..
	7:01pm Mark Hurst: Thanks, everyone!
	7:04pm WR: thank you Mark!

Techtonic with Mark Hurst: Playlist from August 23, 2021

Upcoming events:

Listener comments!

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