WFMU: Techtonic with Mark Hurst: Playlist from June 26, 2023

Listener comments!
	🤖 6:00pm Handy Haversack: Hey, Mark, Techyons.
	6:01pm ultradamno: Mark! Techtonicrafters!
	6:01pm Quinn02: listening through my brand new Apple Vision Pros.
	🤖 6:03pm chresti: Hi Mark and techtonicians! At fist I read it as handtomouth world
	🤖 6:05pm Bas NL: Hi Mark! All!
	🤖 6:05pm Webhamster Henry: Get your walking shoes on!
	6:06pm Jackie G: I remember that show with this walking guy. follow up should be good too.
	6:07pm Ciggy: Out of Eden East of Eden Back to Eden
	6:07pm queems: as a pedestrian who has walked in many non pedestrian spaces, can confirm
	🤖 6:07pm Handy Haversack: I've been reading The Dawn of Everything, and they say that archeology now thinks the migration into the Americas happened more by boats than by the Bering Land Bridge.
	6:07pm The Butterman: Oh my, I’m so excited for this show. After his first appearance on techtonic I’ve read EVERY entry of his entire journey. Amazing story. Amazing guy. Thanks Mark, thanks Paul!
	6:08pm chresti: You could say television made people more distrustful of strangers too?
	6:10pm Jackie G: wonder if Paul has a sponsor who pays for his shoes.
	🤖 6:11pm Ken From Hyde Park: ↳ chresti @6:08 Guns. Don't forget about guns.
	🤖 6:12pm MarciB: I just finished scanning a client's approx. 600 slides from rural China c. 1974. I wonder how much of what Paul saw is similar - still - to these slides!
	🤖 6:12pm tim: Hi Mark! Hi everyone! I’m excited for this interview.
	6:13pm ultradamno: ↳ Ken From Hyde Park @6:11 Fun fact: in a lot of the old west, for instance Dodge City, you couldn't just carry guns around wherever you went www.smithsonianmag.com...
	6:13pm Mark Hurst: Hi all, thanks for joining this evening! Glad to see fans of Paul Salopek - I'm a fan, too.
	🤖 6:14pm DjLorraine: Back to Eden by Jethro Kloss?
	6:15pm Ciggy: Pedestrian Deaths highest in 40 years: www.npr.org...
	🤖 6:16pm DjLorraine: Is there a map of the upcoming route?
	🤖 6:17pm PaulRobeson1923: Hi Hi Hi
	🤖 6:18pm Handy Haversack: ↳ DjLorraine @6:16 www.nationalgeographic.org...
	6:20pm Ciggy: ↳ DjLorraine @6:14 Yes
	6:21pm Franco Twinkie: When I was in Nepal, people drove tractors pulling wooded carts and cows lounged around in the middle of the street. Their houses were made out of mud. Too bad I didn't like the food.
	6:22pm Ike: I backpacked from Thailand and Laos to SW China (Jinghong, Kunming, and Chengdu) in 2007 and didn't see any of what he's describing, so I wish I'd gone wherever he went instead. It was very unfriendly and full of chain-smokers. I thought Laos and Thailand were much more agreeable and fun.
	🤖 6:33pm Bas NL: There's great example of villages in Nepal switching to cooking on solar powered cookers to stop deforestation for firewood.
	6:34pm yippie: the great poet Frank O'Hara was killed by a car on the beach and the cops didn't care
	6:35pm Dano59: Walking, and cycling, in a way, engages the senses and interaction with people and the environment around you. Walking around the world - isn't that called 'Doing a Garfunkel'?
	🤖 6:35pm Folsom: My dad grew up kinda like this in the early 30s, no electricity, horse plows, etc. I don't think he looked back at it fondly, got off the farm as fast as he could.
	6:36pm Les: Such an important show. Thank you for giving light to this topic
	6:37pm castor: Hi Mark and everyone! Loving this interview!
	6:37pm dale: ↳ Ike @6:22 i was a graphic designer and did annual reports in the 1980s. we did phillip morris and they were okay with not pushing tobacco here because southeast asia was a booming market for them. they turned into altria nd bought kraft and other crappy fake food companies to make money here.
	6:37pm Mark Hurst: Thanks, @Les and @castor
	🤖 6:40pm Bas NL: I think it's more the parents encouraging their young to move to the cities. To in turn help support their parents financially.
	🤖 6:41pm PaulRobeson1923: The Television is very similar
	6:44pm castor: I think what the real difference between the old world and the new is that the new is ONLY human, humans dominating and imposing our exacting ways on the material world and exploiting it for all it's worth. The old world is humans following the lead of nature, working with materials and natural forces on more of an equal footing and not hubristically assuming we are masters over everything.
	6:46pm Dano59: ↳ castor @6:44 before, we were OF the world, and now, we are only marginally IN the world.
	🤖 6:46pm Ken From Hyde Park: I suspect that is well over 10,000 steps a day.
	6:46pm coelacanth∅: ↳ castor @6:44 excellent point, castor
	6:49pm castor: ↳ Dano59 @6:46 yes, very marginally. it is a world severed from its ground and floating like a phantom
	6:49pm dale: ↳ castor @6:44 needs to be a like button for the chat.
	6:49pm (Murakami Whywolf))): ↳ castor @6:44 How are whatever human animals make less 'natural' than castorial animals' dams?
	6:50pm Franco Twinkie: This was one of my favorite episodes on Techtonic. Too bad I'm old now and hate carrying a backpack.
	🤖 6:51pm chresti: Terraces?
	6:52pm Dano59: ↳ Franco Twinkie @6:50 "I'm too old for this sh--" has kind of taken over the past 10 years after decades of hiking, trekking, hitchhiking and sleeping on the ground. I bike trails now, but I miss the other stuff in a way.
	6:52pm Fredericks: I am so happy to hear Paul Salopek interviewed again. He influenced how I viewed the build world.
	6:53pm (((Murakami Whywolf): ↳ Dano59 @6:46 Having seen a good deal of the world, all I can say is 'If only it were so.'. We are still so primitive that we depend on dirt and weather to eat, and the goodwill (or trading-partnership or subjugation) of other humans. Under such relations, who is really free?
	🤖 6:53pm Webhamster Henry: Chat GPT will read Paul's book and then give hallucinated advice.
	6:53pm castor: ↳ (Murakami Whywolf))) @6:49 they aren't, but there are differences between how we think of what we make when it comes to carving things by hand vs with a laser machine, and in turn how those methods make us think differently about the world
	6:54pm Franco Twinkie: ↳ Dano59 @6:52 Same here. I loved sleeping in a ditch until the day I didn't.
	6:55pm Zinn The Mood: Caught the last 20min. Excellent discussion. I’d also recommend, like Handy, reading Graeber’s “Dawn of Everything,” and, “Eating to Extinction” by Dana Saladino (I think; sorry, I’m walking with my kid but was compelled to chime in).
	6:55pm Fredericks: Roads are built for machines not people. Whenever, I see people walking along the side of the road I think about how vulnerable they are.
	6:55pm (Murakami Whywolf))): I strongly like many hand-made items; I strongly dislike that many are condemned to make such, whether they feel like it that day or not, or starve. The same goes for office jobs, factory jobs, and creative jobs. All jobs are bad, all work you don't actively want to do is oppressive. Bring on the machines of loving grace.
	🤖 6:56pm Handy Haversack: Thanks, Mark, Paul, world.
	🤖 6:56pm tim: Thanks, Mark!
	6:57pm coelacanth∅: ↳ (Murakami Whywolf))) @6:49 could write a book on how and why it's vastly different...from the resources used to the intentions to the pragmatism...
	6:57pm castor: ↳ (Murakami Whywolf))) @6:55 I agree, and of course it sounds like your grief is with capitalism and other forms of hierarchical exploitation, not technology in and of itself.
	🤖 6:58pm Bas NL: Thanks Mark! Thanks Paul! Interesting topic!
	6:58pm ultradamno: Speaking of Musk. He recently declared 'cis' and 'cisgender' to be considered slurs on Twitter...I assume because his kid yelled them at him just before.
	6:58pm Dano59: I have abandoned Amazon!
	6:58pm castor: Thank you Mark!!!!! I've said it before but read Heidegger's "The Question Concerning Technology!"
	6:59pm (((Murakami Whywolf): ↳ castor @6:53 I think that possibly but not necessarily the case. I get into what feels like exactly the same trance carving wood, shaping hot plastic, coding, or writing.
	6:59pm Dano59: ↳ ultradamno @6:58 'Female' is kind of hurled as an insult in that (hellscape) space. I slurred blue-checks today.
	6:59pm yippie: thank god this song didn't get censored
	🤖 6:59pm Webhamster Henry: The fun thing about handmade stuff is that it's usually repairable, too.
	7:00pm Franco Twinkie: Thanks Mark. Please have more people like Paul Salopek as guests. Inspiring NOT depressing!
	7:00pm Mark Hurst: Thanks, everyone!
	7:00pm ultradamno: ↳ Webhamster Henry @6:59 Tech stuff (esp. Apple) is made to be unrepairable by lay people
	7:00pm castor: ↳ (((Murakami Whywolf) @6:59 i believe it, but always be mindful either way
	7:00pm coelacanth∅: Thanks Mark! Thanks Paul!
	🤖 7:01pm Webhamster Henry: Thanks Mark & Paul! Am a pedestrian and biker, so I'm aware of road quality and safety issues.

Techtonic with Mark Hurst: Playlist from June 26, 2023

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Conversations with creators and thinkers who are charting the way forward in a tech-saturated society. In our shift to a digital future, we need alternatives to Big Tech. Homepage: techtonic.fm

Also available as an MP3 podcast. More info at our Podcast Central page.

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Upcoming events:

Mon. Nov 18th, 6pm - 7pm: Astronomer Samantha Lawler returns to Techtonic (More info...)
Thousands of Elon Musk's SpaceX satellites will re-enter Earth's atmosphere in the next few years, adding huge amounts of metals and chemicals to our atmosphere. Astronomer Samantha Lawler returns to Techtonic to explain why satellite "mega-constellations" are causing havoc for astronomers and will soon affect all life on earth.
Mon. Dec 23rd, 6pm - 7pm: Don Fleming guest hosts Techtonic

June 26, 2023: Paul Salopek on walking through "the handmade world"

Listen to this show: MP3 - 128K | Pop-up listen Pop-up player!

Today: Paul Salopek walks through “the handmade world” of southwest China

For the past 10 years, writer and National Geographic explorer Paul Salopek has been on the "Out of Eden" walk, a 24,000-mile journey starting in Africa and going around the world. On his second appearance on Techtonic, Paul describes what he's seen in the pre-industrial, "handmade world" of southwest China – and what we'll lose as cars, smartphones, and modern cities extinguish traditional practices there.

• A Handmade World (by Paul Salopek in National Geographic, June 13, 2023) – also titled, on the website, “Inside the ‘factory of the world,’ there is still a corner untouched by machines”

• . . . including this quote:
“Viewed at the intimate pace of three miles an hour, I can confirm that Homo sapiens has altered our planet’s ecology to such a radical degree that we should be suffering from mass sleeplessness - not just from bad consciences but from genuine dread. (In more than 3,500 days and nights spent trekking from Africa to East Asia, I can tally, depressingly, the number of meaningful wildlife encounters on my fingers and toes.)”

• Painting a Picture Through Voice: The New Out of Eden Walk Audio Narrative, narrated by Lucy McNeil

• Out of Eden Walk website

• Map of the walk

• @PaulSalopek on Twitter

• @outofedenwalk on Twitter

• April 25, 2022 Techtonic – Paul’s first appearance on the show

• Images on the playlist excerpted from photos in “A Handme World” by Zhou Na and Gilles Sabrié.

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PAST EPISODES: techtonic.fm lists recent Techtonic shows.

PODCAST: Subscribe to the Techtonic podcast

Artist	Track	Approx. start time
Paul Salopek on walking through "a handmade world" in southwest China
Tomaš Dvořák	Game Boy Tune "Game Boy Tune" by "Tomaš Dvořák"
	Mark's intro "Mark's intro"
	Interview with Paul Salopek "Interview with Paul Salopek"	0:07:35 (MP3 \| Pop-up)
	Mark's comments "Mark's comments"	0:45:27 (MP3 \| Pop-up)
Moondog	Enough About Human Rights	0:54:21 (MP3 \| Pop-up)

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Listener comments!
	🤖 6:00pm Handy Haversack: Hey, Mark, Techyons.
	6:01pm ultradamno: Mark! Techtonicrafters!
	6:01pm Quinn02: listening through my brand new Apple Vision Pros.
	🤖 6:03pm chresti: Hi Mark and techtonicians! At fist I read it as handtomouth world
	🤖 6:05pm Bas NL: Hi Mark! All!
	🤖 6:05pm Webhamster Henry: Get your walking shoes on!
	6:06pm Jackie G: I remember that show with this walking guy. follow up should be good too.
	6:07pm Ciggy: Out of Eden East of Eden Back to Eden
	6:07pm queems: as a pedestrian who has walked in many non pedestrian spaces, can confirm
	🤖 6:07pm Handy Haversack: I've been reading The Dawn of Everything, and they say that archeology now thinks the migration into the Americas happened more by boats than by the Bering Land Bridge.
	6:07pm The Butterman: Oh my, I’m so excited for this show. After his first appearance on techtonic I’ve read EVERY entry of his entire journey. Amazing story. Amazing guy. Thanks Mark, thanks Paul!
	6:08pm chresti: You could say television made people more distrustful of strangers too?
	6:10pm Jackie G: wonder if Paul has a sponsor who pays for his shoes.
	🤖 6:11pm Ken From Hyde Park: ↳ chresti @6:08 Guns. Don't forget about guns.
	🤖 6:12pm MarciB: I just finished scanning a client's approx. 600 slides from rural China c. 1974. I wonder how much of what Paul saw is similar - still - to these slides!
	🤖 6:12pm tim: Hi Mark! Hi everyone! I’m excited for this interview.
	6:13pm ultradamno: ↳ Ken From Hyde Park @6:11 Fun fact: in a lot of the old west, for instance Dodge City, you couldn't just carry guns around wherever you went www.smithsonianmag.com...
	6:13pm Mark Hurst: Hi all, thanks for joining this evening! Glad to see fans of Paul Salopek - I'm a fan, too.
	🤖 6:14pm DjLorraine: Back to Eden by Jethro Kloss?
	6:15pm Ciggy: Pedestrian Deaths highest in 40 years: www.npr.org...
	🤖 6:16pm DjLorraine: Is there a map of the upcoming route?
	🤖 6:17pm PaulRobeson1923: Hi Hi Hi
	🤖 6:18pm Handy Haversack: ↳ DjLorraine @6:16 www.nationalgeographic.org...
	6:20pm Ciggy: ↳ DjLorraine @6:14 Yes
	6:21pm Franco Twinkie: When I was in Nepal, people drove tractors pulling wooded carts and cows lounged around in the middle of the street. Their houses were made out of mud. Too bad I didn't like the food.
	6:22pm Ike: I backpacked from Thailand and Laos to SW China (Jinghong, Kunming, and Chengdu) in 2007 and didn't see any of what he's describing, so I wish I'd gone wherever he went instead. It was very unfriendly and full of chain-smokers. I thought Laos and Thailand were much more agreeable and fun.
	🤖 6:33pm Bas NL: There's great example of villages in Nepal switching to cooking on solar powered cookers to stop deforestation for firewood.
	6:34pm yippie: the great poet Frank O'Hara was killed by a car on the beach and the cops didn't care
	6:35pm Dano59: Walking, and cycling, in a way, engages the senses and interaction with people and the environment around you. Walking around the world - isn't that called 'Doing a Garfunkel'?
	🤖 6:35pm Folsom: My dad grew up kinda like this in the early 30s, no electricity, horse plows, etc. I don't think he looked back at it fondly, got off the farm as fast as he could.
	6:36pm Les: Such an important show. Thank you for giving light to this topic
	6:37pm castor: Hi Mark and everyone! Loving this interview!
	6:37pm dale: ↳ Ike @6:22 i was a graphic designer and did annual reports in the 1980s. we did phillip morris and they were okay with not pushing tobacco here because southeast asia was a booming market for them. they turned into altria nd bought kraft and other crappy fake food companies to make money here.
	6:37pm Mark Hurst: Thanks, @Les and @castor
	🤖 6:40pm Bas NL: I think it's more the parents encouraging their young to move to the cities. To in turn help support their parents financially.
	🤖 6:41pm PaulRobeson1923: The Television is very similar
	6:44pm castor: I think what the real difference between the old world and the new is that the new is ONLY human, humans dominating and imposing our exacting ways on the material world and exploiting it for all it's worth. The old world is humans following the lead of nature, working with materials and natural forces on more of an equal footing and not hubristically assuming we are masters over everything.
	6:46pm Dano59: ↳ castor @6:44 before, we were OF the world, and now, we are only marginally IN the world.
	🤖 6:46pm Ken From Hyde Park: I suspect that is well over 10,000 steps a day.
	6:46pm coelacanth∅: ↳ castor @6:44 excellent point, castor
	6:49pm castor: ↳ Dano59 @6:46 yes, very marginally. it is a world severed from its ground and floating like a phantom
	6:49pm dale: ↳ castor @6:44 needs to be a like button for the chat.
	6:49pm (Murakami Whywolf))): ↳ castor @6:44 How are whatever human animals make less 'natural' than castorial animals' dams?
	6:50pm Franco Twinkie: This was one of my favorite episodes on Techtonic. Too bad I'm old now and hate carrying a backpack.
	🤖 6:51pm chresti: Terraces?
	6:52pm Dano59: ↳ Franco Twinkie @6:50 "I'm too old for this sh--" has kind of taken over the past 10 years after decades of hiking, trekking, hitchhiking and sleeping on the ground. I bike trails now, but I miss the other stuff in a way.
	6:52pm Fredericks: I am so happy to hear Paul Salopek interviewed again. He influenced how I viewed the build world.
	6:53pm (((Murakami Whywolf): ↳ Dano59 @6:46 Having seen a good deal of the world, all I can say is 'If only it were so.'. We are still so primitive that we depend on dirt and weather to eat, and the goodwill (or trading-partnership or subjugation) of other humans. Under such relations, who is really free?
	🤖 6:53pm Webhamster Henry: Chat GPT will read Paul's book and then give hallucinated advice.
	6:53pm castor: ↳ (Murakami Whywolf))) @6:49 they aren't, but there are differences between how we think of what we make when it comes to carving things by hand vs with a laser machine, and in turn how those methods make us think differently about the world
	6:54pm Franco Twinkie: ↳ Dano59 @6:52 Same here. I loved sleeping in a ditch until the day I didn't.
	6:55pm Zinn The Mood: Caught the last 20min. Excellent discussion. I’d also recommend, like Handy, reading Graeber’s “Dawn of Everything,” and, “Eating to Extinction” by Dana Saladino (I think; sorry, I’m walking with my kid but was compelled to chime in).
	6:55pm Fredericks: Roads are built for machines not people. Whenever, I see people walking along the side of the road I think about how vulnerable they are.
	6:55pm (Murakami Whywolf))): I strongly like many hand-made items; I strongly dislike that many are condemned to make such, whether they feel like it that day or not, or starve. The same goes for office jobs, factory jobs, and creative jobs. All jobs are bad, all work you don't actively want to do is oppressive. Bring on the machines of loving grace.
	🤖 6:56pm Handy Haversack: Thanks, Mark, Paul, world.
	🤖 6:56pm tim: Thanks, Mark!
	6:57pm coelacanth∅: ↳ (Murakami Whywolf))) @6:49 could write a book on how and why it's vastly different...from the resources used to the intentions to the pragmatism...
	6:57pm castor: ↳ (Murakami Whywolf))) @6:55 I agree, and of course it sounds like your grief is with capitalism and other forms of hierarchical exploitation, not technology in and of itself.
	🤖 6:58pm Bas NL: Thanks Mark! Thanks Paul! Interesting topic!
	6:58pm ultradamno: Speaking of Musk. He recently declared 'cis' and 'cisgender' to be considered slurs on Twitter...I assume because his kid yelled them at him just before.
	6:58pm Dano59: I have abandoned Amazon!
	6:58pm castor: Thank you Mark!!!!! I've said it before but read Heidegger's "The Question Concerning Technology!"
	6:59pm (((Murakami Whywolf): ↳ castor @6:53 I think that possibly but not necessarily the case. I get into what feels like exactly the same trance carving wood, shaping hot plastic, coding, or writing.
	6:59pm Dano59: ↳ ultradamno @6:58 'Female' is kind of hurled as an insult in that (hellscape) space. I slurred blue-checks today.
	6:59pm yippie: thank god this song didn't get censored
	🤖 6:59pm Webhamster Henry: The fun thing about handmade stuff is that it's usually repairable, too.
	7:00pm Franco Twinkie: Thanks Mark. Please have more people like Paul Salopek as guests. Inspiring NOT depressing!
	7:00pm Mark Hurst: Thanks, everyone!
	7:00pm ultradamno: ↳ Webhamster Henry @6:59 Tech stuff (esp. Apple) is made to be unrepairable by lay people
	7:00pm castor: ↳ (((Murakami Whywolf) @6:59 i believe it, but always be mindful either way
	7:00pm coelacanth∅: Thanks Mark! Thanks Paul!
	🤖 7:01pm Webhamster Henry: Thanks Mark & Paul! Am a pedestrian and biker, so I'm aware of road quality and safety issues.

Techtonic with Mark Hurst: Playlist from June 26, 2023

Upcoming events:

Listener comments!

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