WFMU: Techtonic with Mark Hurst: Playlist from November 20, 2023

Listener comments!
	🤖 6:00pm chresti: Hi mark and techtonicians!
	6:00pm ultradamno: Mark! Techtolar Panelists!
	6:00pm David (in London): Evening Mark and all Technoids.
	🤖 6:02pm Wendy del Formaggio: Hey Mark and friends! I'm lurking... and totally psyched for this interview.
	🤖 6:02pm Bas NL: Hi Mark! BigTech up, techtonicians!
	6:03pm ultradamno: ↳ Song: "Game Boy Tune" by "Tomaš Dvořák" That is a solid joke.
	🤖 6:03pm DjLorraine: Hi
	🤖 6:04pm Will thee Sound Guy: Hello Mark Hurst and all!!!
	6:06pm yippie: My last name in japanese is Pawaazu. (I know I once asked how to say mark hurst in japanese but I think you told me Marco). I went to japan and I paid for my trains with Amex and an iPhone app, did you actually use cash and buy a paper ticket for every train in Japan?
	6:06pm Jim the Poet: Tech Mark likes????
	6:07pm Jeff Golick: Does it creatitity?
	🤖 6:09pm Bas NL: How green!
	6:09pm Tom from Stirling: Marku-sama
	6:09pm dale: wasn't wjff in jeffersonville ny hydro=powered for a while? don't know if it still is.....
	6:10pm Androu B.: Good Evening, Mark & Techtonians! Mark, I have a question: I'm currently shopping for a new phone and I've got my eye on a particular model by Motorola. Are there any issues with this maker concerning surveillance tech that I may need to know about?
	🤖 6:10pm chresti: If he’s in Arizona or California there’s more sun
	6:11pm Mark Hurst: ↳ ultradamno @6:03 Glad you appreciated that
	6:12pm Mark Hurst: Hi chresti, ultra, DiL, Wendy, Bas, DjLorraine, WtSG, yippie, Jim, Jeff, Tom, dale, Androu - thank you all for joining!
	6:12pm yippie: I thought maruko= Marco and Maaku= Mark
	6:13pm Mark Hurst: ↳ Androu B. @6:10 I'd be primarily concerned with the software. If it's running Android, that's a Google mobile operating system that's full of surveillance hooks.
	6:15pm Mark Hurst: ↳ Jim the Poet @6:06 It does exist!
	6:15pm Mark Hurst: ↳ Jeff Golick @6:07 Well, human in in cenex.
	6:16pm Androu B.: ↳ Mark Hurst @6:13 Thanks, Mark! Consider me forewarned!
	🤖 6:18pm Folsom: I'm wondering how well the bike generator works. I saw a pro biker with 32" thighs trying to power a toaster to make toast, he was crying on the floor since he about killed himself for 2 slices of toast.
	6:20pm dale: ↳ Folsom @6:18 that's a lot of wattage required.
	6:20pm joe_rosevear: I'm sorry, but I'm not impressed by the extreme choice to let the website go down for lack of sun. The simple solution is to use power from the grid when needed. What is gained by "black and white", "all or nothing" thinking?
	🤖 6:20pm Ken From Hyde Park: Hook up a turbine to the bathtub water faucet and generate electricity via water power when backup is needed.
	🤖 6:26pm tim from washington: ↳ joe_rosevear @6:20 I see it more so as using what’s available when it’s available. Also, I like this idea for slowing the hell down. Almost all websites have no need to be active all the times. Think of it like a print newspaper.
	6:26pm ohme: This is great Mark! A battery engineer once told me that “everyone wants 100% on their phone but what they don’t realize is that peak battery performance is between 20-80% and to get from 80 to 100 is the same amount of energy and time to get from 10-80%!”
	6:26pm Sam: I miss the grainy black and white photos in the newspaper.
	🤖 6:28pm tim from washington: ↳ joe_rosevear @6:20 FYI - I’m not discounting your opinion, it’s good to hear.
	6:28pm carrots: its a waste to look at photographs on a telephone
	6:29pm Mark Hurst: ↳ ohme @6:26 Really interesting - had never heard that about peak battery performance.
	🤖 6:29pm Wendy del Formaggio: ↳ joe_rosevear @6:20 I don't think the choice is extreme. I also don't think it's indicative of "black and white" thinking. I think it's taking a different perspective toward what is necessary, and then choosing to tread more lightly when something isn't necessary.
	🤖 6:30pm DjLorraine: Do they charge extra for smaller cars bc the ins company considers it a sports vehicle? (Instead of economy)
	🤖 6:31pm Webhamster Henry: I'm from the olde skool days of webserving, and my websites look very 90s ish - even a bit like old 80s era BBSes. I'm an ASCII artist, for instance.
	6:31pm Jim the Poet: I want to make an online mimeo machine
	6:31pm carrots: i keep daydreaming about a day when everyone becomes cross-eyed from looking at our phones all day and poof just like that it all goes away and everyone throws their phones out! , like Steve Martins invention in The Jerk.
	6:31pm ?: Really appreciate the topic, Mark. I've wondered how much energy gifs take. Wonder if they couldn't be designed with a specific lifetime
	🤖 6:32pm Webhamster Henry: The website I run on my NAS, well, it's energy is sourced from green sources, but I can't help the evil Central Hudson delivery charges.
	6:32pm Marie in Chicago: I AM ? !
	6:33pm Sam: High resolution is unsustainable. Sooner or later we will run out of electrons!
	🤖 6:33pm MarciB: Back in September I watched a panel discussion of from my fellow photo managers called "To Cloud or not to Cloud". Several of the panelists were located in Europe where they are much more aware of this issue. Most of the US viewers were suprised to learn about the cost of cloud storage - they assume it's free and cheap. Which it is not!
	🤖 6:34pm Ken From Hyde Park: I have solar panels on my house. I'd like to install a battery backup, but the cost is thousands and I can't afford it at the moment.
	🤖 6:35pm tim: ↳ carrots @6:31 I agree completely. But it would be a sad day for Cup -o- Pizza.
	🤖 6:35pm Webhamster Henry: I want to point out that new style lossy image compression like webp and avif are pretty darn good. But I'll tell you what's coming: the "image" will be a low quality , low res image with a machine learning prompt that turns it into a high res image. Every user will probably get a different result, but you know what? It doesn't really matter most of the time.
	6:35pm Sam: ↳ carrots @6:31 Everyone became stupid and paranoid from looking at their phones. But it wasn’t enough to abandon them, it seems. As Stereolab said “Is it enough to show How the nightmare works, So everyone can Wake Up, Is it enough?”
	🤖 6:36pm Will thee Sound Guy: The servers that my website is hosted on claims to be wind powered 🌬️🍃 ⚡
	🤖 6:37pm Wendy del Formaggio: What Kris is saying about longevity and compatibility is true. One of my jobs is as an archivist / file clerk for a small town in Massachusetts. In going through old reports and records, anything I find from 10 or 20 years ago on a 3.5" disk or even a CD is useless at this point. But, every piece of paper I archive -- including records going back to the 1970s and earlier -- is still accessible and legible 50+ years later.
	6:37pm joe_rosevear: ↳ Wendy del Formaggio @6:29 I think low tech is great. I'm a big fan of low tech, in fact I have a website of my own that is low tech and uses very little php and no javascript at all. It thus does what de Decker said--it doesn't "generate" pages. My site is JoesLife.org. But I ask again--why let the website go down for lack of sun? Do you know the expression, "Don't cut off your nose to spite your face?"
	🤖 6:37pm Webhamster Henry: And about that 3Tb carrying pigeon: we used to talk about the bandwidth of a truckfull of floppy disks.
	🤖 6:38pm MarciB: ↳ Wendy del Formaggio @6:37 That's great! And why I shifted my business focus to 100% analog organizing and preservation!
	6:38pm Marie in Chicago: I read that meta is now offering ad-free subscriptions in the EU (to try to deal with privacy laws)--maybe we will be able to reduce ads online overall eventually. (I'm sure they take up a lot of energy)
	🤖 6:39pm Webhamster Henry: ↳ Wendy del Formaggio @6:37 I'm friends with the archives here in Kingston, and they trotted out for Ulster County's 340th anniversary, the original British patent for this and the other counties that were established then in NY, and some other 17th century documents.
	6:40pm Marie in Chicago: I just got a great hand-me down Schwinn--will start biking again--psyched
	🤖 6:40pm tim: I’m out! Ant bow and arrow conceal and carry is a step too far, Hurst!
	🤖 6:40pm Wendy del Formaggio: ↳ joe_rosevear @6:37 Let's go back to my question, Joe: What is necessary? If Kris doesn't think his website needs to be up 24/7, and keeping it up 24/7 violates his ethics and values, then there is no reason to keep it up. His website is not a crucial part of the public works / infrastructure. Nobody will be harmed from the site going down, but some harm is done by using the grid to keep it up.
	🤖 6:40pm MarciB: ↳ Webhamster Henry @6:39 That must've been such a thrill to see in person!
	🤖 6:41pm Wendy del Formaggio: ↳ Webhamster Henry @6:39 O M G jealous! I'd love to see those.
	6:41pm Marie in Chicago: ↳ Webhamster Henry @6:39 interesting
	6:42pm Franco Twinkie: I graduated from high school in 1973, and I kid you not, archery was a mandatory part of physical education.
	6:42pm Mark Hurst: ↳ Webhamster Henry @6:39 Cool... similarly I'd recommend taking a look at the New York Public Library's permanent exhibit called "Treasures" - they rotate in various original artifacts at the 42nd & 5th main branch. Worth seeing. I saw a Declaration of Independence last time I visited.
	6:42pm Sam: Why bows and arrows, why not no weapons at all?
	🤖 6:42pm Wendy del Formaggio: ↳ Webhamster Henry @6:39 At my job, I got to archive the 1930s blueprints of when the state (well, commonwealth) established the highway system that ran through the town. And they're really blue!
	6:43pm ultradamno: ↳ Franco Twinkie @6:42 I did very poorly at that, but I remember it. Preferred it to square dancing anyhow.
	🤖 6:43pm Wendy del Formaggio: ↳ Wendy del Formaggio @6:42 Sorry. The highway still runs through town. Mind you, this "interstate" is one lane on each side. But it does come from NH and go into MA, so it's an interstate.
	6:44pm Androu B.: ↳ Marie in Chicago @6:40 Good for you! Just so happens I bought a used one over the summer.
	🤖 6:44pm Wendy del Formaggio: ↳ Mark Hurst @6:42 Shout-out to public libraries!
	6:44pm mespr: I would suggest that Kris clone and sell his server. I would run one in Arizona. Each server could host multiple static websites. We could share the sun. It would be possible to implement a very simplistic load balancer that would chase the sun around the earth.
	🤖 6:44pm Ken From Hyde Park: ↳ Franco Twinkie @6:42 Neat! We had archery in 4-H camp.
	6:44pm ultradamno: ↳ Sam @6:42 If doomsday weapons are outlawed only outlaws will have doomsday weapons!
	6:45pm Franco Twinkie: I sharpen pencils with an ax.
	🤖 6:45pm tim: ↳ Wendy del Formaggio @6:42 I work at an art and architecture library. I was astounded when I saw that early 20th century blue prints are blue! And blue paper is still chemically active. It can fade out pretty quickly.
	6:45pm Marie in Chicago: ↳ Androu B. @6:44 Yeah, I used to ride almost everywhere for like 19 years. Loved it. How is your Schwinn working out?
	6:47pm Sam: Mommy I’m cold! Stop complaining and get on the bike!
	6:49pm ultradamno: Party line!
	6:49pm Androu B.: ↳ Marie in Chicago @6:45 Haven't had a chance to take it out for a spin yet. Rear wheel needs air & I need to get a pump.
	6:51pm Marie in Chicago: ↳ Androu B. @6:49 oh, ok. where do you live again?
	6:51pm Franco Twinkie: This was a top show. Thank you Mark and Kris.
	🤖 6:51pm Will thee Sound Guy: ↳ tim @6:45 My full time job is being a landsurveyor... Prints are degrading in every county... Some have scanned them. Some of the scans are crappy... They need to capture with more DPI at most of the counties. Once it's gone it's lost...
	6:52pm ultradamno: I hope the stream doesn't rebel against the prog again this week.
	6:52pm Sam: You can always listen to the archive - as long as it’s sunny.
	6:52pm chris in the redwoods: that was really great, Mark. thanks!
	🤖 6:52pm DjLorraine: ↳ Marie in Chicago @6:40 I just got a bontrager light and it's bright and helpful.
	🤖 6:52pm tim: Great interview Mark and Kris!
	🤖 6:52pm Webhamster Henry: This part of NY has a large number of 17th and 18th century buildings still. Kingston was burned by the British in 1777, but the stone didn't burn!
	6:53pm Androu B.: ↳ Marie in Chicago @6:51 Central NJ. We have roads with bike access now.
	6:53pm Marie in Chicago: ↳ Will thee Sound Guy @6:51 i suppose they/you could take pics?
	🤖 6:54pm Will thee Sound Guy: ↳ Marie in Chicago @6:53 You must pay for copies, photography is prohibited
	🤖 6:54pm tim: ↳ Will thee Sound Guy @6:51 Sure! That’s the truth. I’ve had surveyors and engineers come in to find records that no longer exist at the county level.
	6:54pm Marie in Chicago: I gotta say, wihotht any data, I think throwing tech/ai solutions out is a particularly male tendency
	6:55pm dale: ↳ Ken From Hyde Park @6:20 like how every cheap product had an "i" in front of it after ipod and ipad and imac became ubiquitous.
	🤖 6:56pm tim: ↳ Will thee Sound Guy @6:54 Next time you run into this situation check with a librarian at your state land grant university. They probably can get you what you need.
	6:56pm ultradamno: Team Huffy!
	6:56pm Marie in Chicago: ↳ Will thee Sound Guy @6:54 oh, but for preservation purposes, photos might be good?
	6:56pm joe_rosevear: What did you say, Mark? Did you dis AI in favor of spending more money (higher wages)?
	6:56pm dale: ↳ dale @6:55 not meant for ken in hyde park.....
	🤖 6:57pm Webhamster Henry: I'm riding my father's 35+ year old Fuji Saratoga bike, but I upgraded the gear system this year.
	🤖 6:57pm Will thee Sound Guy: ↳ tim @6:56 Good to know. Most of the people in the clerks office that are good with maps will rescan it... But the original must exist and be scannable
	🤖 6:58pm tim: ↳ Will thee Sound Guy @6:57 Right!
	6:58pm Marie in Chicago: I had a steel Peugeot from the 80s that was like a tank--my fave adult bike. Lasted forever (a friend gave it to me in the 00s)
	🤖 6:58pm tim: Thanks, Mark!
	🤖 6:59pm Wendy del Formaggio: Thank you, Mark!
	🤖 6:59pm Bas NL: Thanks Mark! Have a nice break!
	6:59pm Marie in Chicago: Thanks, Mark and Kris!
	🤖 6:59pm Will thee Sound Guy: ↳ Marie in Chicago @6:56 Probably 10 years ago they lost a bunch of railroad maps... Lucky, one of the local surveyors had the whole catalog
	🤖 6:59pm chresti: Thanks Mark!
	7:00pm Androu B.: Thanks, Mark! Happy Thanksgiving to you!
	🤖 7:00pm Ken From Hyde Park: Thanks, Mark. The Simpsons last night showed a futuristic 3-D food printer spewing a Thanksgiving meal. Technology we can use!
	7:00pm SeaCreature: Feel like I need to pump in a quarter for this tune;)
	7:01pm Mark Hurst: Thanks, everyone!
	7:19pm joe_rosevear: ↳ Wendy del Formaggio @6:40 Well, OK. If that's how your personal ethics work, then go for it!

Techtonic with Mark Hurst: Playlist from November 20, 2023

View Mark Hurst's profile

Conversations with creators and thinkers who are charting the way forward in a tech-saturated society. In our shift to a digital future, we need alternatives to Big Tech. Homepage: techtonic.fm

Also available as an MP3 podcast. More info at our Podcast Central page.

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Upcoming events:

Mon. Dec 23rd, 6pm - 7pm: Don Fleming guest hosts Techtonic
Mon. Dec 30th, 6pm - 7pm: Andrew Smith, author, "Devil in the Stack" (More info...)
Writer Andrew Smith decided to learn computer programming in his 50s. What happened next is captured in his book "Devil in the Stack: A Code Odyssey," and wide-ranging tour through computer history, neuroscience, and the friendliest programming language.

November 20, 2023: Kris De Decker, founder, Low-Tech Magazine

Listen to this show: MP3 - 128K | Pop-up listen Pop-up player!

Today: Kris De Decker, founder, Low-tech Magazine

• Low-tech Magazine, a solar-powered website

• krisdedecker.org, Kris De Decker’s site

• Human Power Plant

• What If We Replace Guns and Bullets with Bows and Arrows? (Low-tech Magazine, Nov 23, 2022)

• How to Build a Practical Household Bike Generator (Low-Tech Magazine, March 6, 2022): “We built a pedal-powered generator and controller, which is practical to use as an energy source and exercise machine in a household – and which you can integrate into a solar PV system.”

• Pigeons are still (sometimes) faster than your internet (Washington Post, Nov 10, 2023): “Even in areas with high-speed internet, pigeons can — and have — beat the internet with large-enough data. Earlier this year, YouTuber and software developer Jeff Geerling strapped 3 terabytes’ worth of flash drives onto a pigeon. The pigeon won against his super-fast gigabit fiber internet.”

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PAST EPISODES: techtonic.fm lists recent Techtonic shows.

PODCAST: Subscribe to the Techtonic podcast

Artist	Track	Approx. start time
Kris De Decker, founder, Low-tech Magazine
Tomaš Dvořák	Game Boy Tune "Game Boy Tune" by "Tomaš Dvořák"
	Mark's intro "Mark's intro"
	Interview with Kris de Decker "Interview with Kris de Decker"	0:07:05 (MP3 \| Pop-up)
	Mark's comments "Mark's comments"	0:47:48 (MP3 \| Pop-up)
Linus Akesson	Vivaldi Summer Presto	0:56:55 (MP3 \| Pop-up)

RSS feeds for Techtonic with Mark Hurst: Playlists feed | MP3 archives feed

| E-mail Mark Hurst | Other WFMU Playlists | All artists played by Techtonic with Mark Hurst |

Listener comments!
	🤖 6:00pm chresti: Hi mark and techtonicians!
	6:00pm ultradamno: Mark! Techtolar Panelists!
	6:00pm David (in London): Evening Mark and all Technoids.
	🤖 6:02pm Wendy del Formaggio: Hey Mark and friends! I'm lurking... and totally psyched for this interview.
	🤖 6:02pm Bas NL: Hi Mark! BigTech up, techtonicians!
	6:03pm ultradamno: ↳ Song: "Game Boy Tune" by "Tomaš Dvořák" That is a solid joke.
	🤖 6:03pm DjLorraine: Hi
	🤖 6:04pm Will thee Sound Guy: Hello Mark Hurst and all!!!
	6:06pm yippie: My last name in japanese is Pawaazu. (I know I once asked how to say mark hurst in japanese but I think you told me Marco). I went to japan and I paid for my trains with Amex and an iPhone app, did you actually use cash and buy a paper ticket for every train in Japan?
	6:06pm Jim the Poet: Tech Mark likes????
	6:07pm Jeff Golick: Does it creatitity?
	🤖 6:09pm Bas NL: How green!
	6:09pm Tom from Stirling: Marku-sama
	6:09pm dale: wasn't wjff in jeffersonville ny hydro=powered for a while? don't know if it still is.....
	6:10pm Androu B.: Good Evening, Mark & Techtonians! Mark, I have a question: I'm currently shopping for a new phone and I've got my eye on a particular model by Motorola. Are there any issues with this maker concerning surveillance tech that I may need to know about?
	🤖 6:10pm chresti: If he’s in Arizona or California there’s more sun
	6:11pm Mark Hurst: ↳ ultradamno @6:03 Glad you appreciated that
	6:12pm Mark Hurst: Hi chresti, ultra, DiL, Wendy, Bas, DjLorraine, WtSG, yippie, Jim, Jeff, Tom, dale, Androu - thank you all for joining!
	6:12pm yippie: I thought maruko= Marco and Maaku= Mark
	6:13pm Mark Hurst: ↳ Androu B. @6:10 I'd be primarily concerned with the software. If it's running Android, that's a Google mobile operating system that's full of surveillance hooks.
	6:15pm Mark Hurst: ↳ Jim the Poet @6:06 It does exist!
	6:15pm Mark Hurst: ↳ Jeff Golick @6:07 Well, human in in cenex.
	6:16pm Androu B.: ↳ Mark Hurst @6:13 Thanks, Mark! Consider me forewarned!
	🤖 6:18pm Folsom: I'm wondering how well the bike generator works. I saw a pro biker with 32" thighs trying to power a toaster to make toast, he was crying on the floor since he about killed himself for 2 slices of toast.
	6:20pm dale: ↳ Folsom @6:18 that's a lot of wattage required.
	6:20pm joe_rosevear: I'm sorry, but I'm not impressed by the extreme choice to let the website go down for lack of sun. The simple solution is to use power from the grid when needed. What is gained by "black and white", "all or nothing" thinking?
	🤖 6:20pm Ken From Hyde Park: Hook up a turbine to the bathtub water faucet and generate electricity via water power when backup is needed.
	🤖 6:26pm tim from washington: ↳ joe_rosevear @6:20 I see it more so as using what’s available when it’s available. Also, I like this idea for slowing the hell down. Almost all websites have no need to be active all the times. Think of it like a print newspaper.
	6:26pm ohme: This is great Mark! A battery engineer once told me that “everyone wants 100% on their phone but what they don’t realize is that peak battery performance is between 20-80% and to get from 80 to 100 is the same amount of energy and time to get from 10-80%!”
	6:26pm Sam: I miss the grainy black and white photos in the newspaper.
	🤖 6:28pm tim from washington: ↳ joe_rosevear @6:20 FYI - I’m not discounting your opinion, it’s good to hear.
	6:28pm carrots: its a waste to look at photographs on a telephone
	6:29pm Mark Hurst: ↳ ohme @6:26 Really interesting - had never heard that about peak battery performance.
	🤖 6:29pm Wendy del Formaggio: ↳ joe_rosevear @6:20 I don't think the choice is extreme. I also don't think it's indicative of "black and white" thinking. I think it's taking a different perspective toward what is necessary, and then choosing to tread more lightly when something isn't necessary.
	🤖 6:30pm DjLorraine: Do they charge extra for smaller cars bc the ins company considers it a sports vehicle? (Instead of economy)
	🤖 6:31pm Webhamster Henry: I'm from the olde skool days of webserving, and my websites look very 90s ish - even a bit like old 80s era BBSes. I'm an ASCII artist, for instance.
	6:31pm Jim the Poet: I want to make an online mimeo machine
	6:31pm carrots: i keep daydreaming about a day when everyone becomes cross-eyed from looking at our phones all day and poof just like that it all goes away and everyone throws their phones out! , like Steve Martins invention in The Jerk.
	6:31pm ?: Really appreciate the topic, Mark. I've wondered how much energy gifs take. Wonder if they couldn't be designed with a specific lifetime
	🤖 6:32pm Webhamster Henry: The website I run on my NAS, well, it's energy is sourced from green sources, but I can't help the evil Central Hudson delivery charges.
	6:32pm Marie in Chicago: I AM ? !
	6:33pm Sam: High resolution is unsustainable. Sooner or later we will run out of electrons!
	🤖 6:33pm MarciB: Back in September I watched a panel discussion of from my fellow photo managers called "To Cloud or not to Cloud". Several of the panelists were located in Europe where they are much more aware of this issue. Most of the US viewers were suprised to learn about the cost of cloud storage - they assume it's free and cheap. Which it is not!
	🤖 6:34pm Ken From Hyde Park: I have solar panels on my house. I'd like to install a battery backup, but the cost is thousands and I can't afford it at the moment.
	🤖 6:35pm tim: ↳ carrots @6:31 I agree completely. But it would be a sad day for Cup -o- Pizza.
	🤖 6:35pm Webhamster Henry: I want to point out that new style lossy image compression like webp and avif are pretty darn good. But I'll tell you what's coming: the "image" will be a low quality , low res image with a machine learning prompt that turns it into a high res image. Every user will probably get a different result, but you know what? It doesn't really matter most of the time.
	6:35pm Sam: ↳ carrots @6:31 Everyone became stupid and paranoid from looking at their phones. But it wasn’t enough to abandon them, it seems. As Stereolab said “Is it enough to show How the nightmare works, So everyone can Wake Up, Is it enough?”
	🤖 6:36pm Will thee Sound Guy: The servers that my website is hosted on claims to be wind powered 🌬️🍃 ⚡
	🤖 6:37pm Wendy del Formaggio: What Kris is saying about longevity and compatibility is true. One of my jobs is as an archivist / file clerk for a small town in Massachusetts. In going through old reports and records, anything I find from 10 or 20 years ago on a 3.5" disk or even a CD is useless at this point. But, every piece of paper I archive -- including records going back to the 1970s and earlier -- is still accessible and legible 50+ years later.
	6:37pm joe_rosevear: ↳ Wendy del Formaggio @6:29 I think low tech is great. I'm a big fan of low tech, in fact I have a website of my own that is low tech and uses very little php and no javascript at all. It thus does what de Decker said--it doesn't "generate" pages. My site is JoesLife.org. But I ask again--why let the website go down for lack of sun? Do you know the expression, "Don't cut off your nose to spite your face?"
	🤖 6:37pm Webhamster Henry: And about that 3Tb carrying pigeon: we used to talk about the bandwidth of a truckfull of floppy disks.
	🤖 6:38pm MarciB: ↳ Wendy del Formaggio @6:37 That's great! And why I shifted my business focus to 100% analog organizing and preservation!
	6:38pm Marie in Chicago: I read that meta is now offering ad-free subscriptions in the EU (to try to deal with privacy laws)--maybe we will be able to reduce ads online overall eventually. (I'm sure they take up a lot of energy)
	🤖 6:39pm Webhamster Henry: ↳ Wendy del Formaggio @6:37 I'm friends with the archives here in Kingston, and they trotted out for Ulster County's 340th anniversary, the original British patent for this and the other counties that were established then in NY, and some other 17th century documents.
	6:40pm Marie in Chicago: I just got a great hand-me down Schwinn--will start biking again--psyched
	🤖 6:40pm tim: I’m out! Ant bow and arrow conceal and carry is a step too far, Hurst!
	🤖 6:40pm Wendy del Formaggio: ↳ joe_rosevear @6:37 Let's go back to my question, Joe: What is necessary? If Kris doesn't think his website needs to be up 24/7, and keeping it up 24/7 violates his ethics and values, then there is no reason to keep it up. His website is not a crucial part of the public works / infrastructure. Nobody will be harmed from the site going down, but some harm is done by using the grid to keep it up.
	🤖 6:40pm MarciB: ↳ Webhamster Henry @6:39 That must've been such a thrill to see in person!
	🤖 6:41pm Wendy del Formaggio: ↳ Webhamster Henry @6:39 O M G jealous! I'd love to see those.
	6:41pm Marie in Chicago: ↳ Webhamster Henry @6:39 interesting
	6:42pm Franco Twinkie: I graduated from high school in 1973, and I kid you not, archery was a mandatory part of physical education.
	6:42pm Mark Hurst: ↳ Webhamster Henry @6:39 Cool... similarly I'd recommend taking a look at the New York Public Library's permanent exhibit called "Treasures" - they rotate in various original artifacts at the 42nd & 5th main branch. Worth seeing. I saw a Declaration of Independence last time I visited.
	6:42pm Sam: Why bows and arrows, why not no weapons at all?
	🤖 6:42pm Wendy del Formaggio: ↳ Webhamster Henry @6:39 At my job, I got to archive the 1930s blueprints of when the state (well, commonwealth) established the highway system that ran through the town. And they're really blue!
	6:43pm ultradamno: ↳ Franco Twinkie @6:42 I did very poorly at that, but I remember it. Preferred it to square dancing anyhow.
	🤖 6:43pm Wendy del Formaggio: ↳ Wendy del Formaggio @6:42 Sorry. The highway still runs through town. Mind you, this "interstate" is one lane on each side. But it does come from NH and go into MA, so it's an interstate.
	6:44pm Androu B.: ↳ Marie in Chicago @6:40 Good for you! Just so happens I bought a used one over the summer.
	🤖 6:44pm Wendy del Formaggio: ↳ Mark Hurst @6:42 Shout-out to public libraries!
	6:44pm mespr: I would suggest that Kris clone and sell his server. I would run one in Arizona. Each server could host multiple static websites. We could share the sun. It would be possible to implement a very simplistic load balancer that would chase the sun around the earth.
	🤖 6:44pm Ken From Hyde Park: ↳ Franco Twinkie @6:42 Neat! We had archery in 4-H camp.
	6:44pm ultradamno: ↳ Sam @6:42 If doomsday weapons are outlawed only outlaws will have doomsday weapons!
	6:45pm Franco Twinkie: I sharpen pencils with an ax.
	🤖 6:45pm tim: ↳ Wendy del Formaggio @6:42 I work at an art and architecture library. I was astounded when I saw that early 20th century blue prints are blue! And blue paper is still chemically active. It can fade out pretty quickly.
	6:45pm Marie in Chicago: ↳ Androu B. @6:44 Yeah, I used to ride almost everywhere for like 19 years. Loved it. How is your Schwinn working out?
	6:47pm Sam: Mommy I’m cold! Stop complaining and get on the bike!
	6:49pm ultradamno: Party line!
	6:49pm Androu B.: ↳ Marie in Chicago @6:45 Haven't had a chance to take it out for a spin yet. Rear wheel needs air & I need to get a pump.
	6:51pm Marie in Chicago: ↳ Androu B. @6:49 oh, ok. where do you live again?
	6:51pm Franco Twinkie: This was a top show. Thank you Mark and Kris.
	🤖 6:51pm Will thee Sound Guy: ↳ tim @6:45 My full time job is being a landsurveyor... Prints are degrading in every county... Some have scanned them. Some of the scans are crappy... They need to capture with more DPI at most of the counties. Once it's gone it's lost...
	6:52pm ultradamno: I hope the stream doesn't rebel against the prog again this week.
	6:52pm Sam: You can always listen to the archive - as long as it’s sunny.
	6:52pm chris in the redwoods: that was really great, Mark. thanks!
	🤖 6:52pm DjLorraine: ↳ Marie in Chicago @6:40 I just got a bontrager light and it's bright and helpful.
	🤖 6:52pm tim: Great interview Mark and Kris!
	🤖 6:52pm Webhamster Henry: This part of NY has a large number of 17th and 18th century buildings still. Kingston was burned by the British in 1777, but the stone didn't burn!
	6:53pm Androu B.: ↳ Marie in Chicago @6:51 Central NJ. We have roads with bike access now.
	6:53pm Marie in Chicago: ↳ Will thee Sound Guy @6:51 i suppose they/you could take pics?
	🤖 6:54pm Will thee Sound Guy: ↳ Marie in Chicago @6:53 You must pay for copies, photography is prohibited
	🤖 6:54pm tim: ↳ Will thee Sound Guy @6:51 Sure! That’s the truth. I’ve had surveyors and engineers come in to find records that no longer exist at the county level.
	6:54pm Marie in Chicago: I gotta say, wihotht any data, I think throwing tech/ai solutions out is a particularly male tendency
	6:55pm dale: ↳ Ken From Hyde Park @6:20 like how every cheap product had an "i" in front of it after ipod and ipad and imac became ubiquitous.
	🤖 6:56pm tim: ↳ Will thee Sound Guy @6:54 Next time you run into this situation check with a librarian at your state land grant university. They probably can get you what you need.
	6:56pm ultradamno: Team Huffy!
	6:56pm Marie in Chicago: ↳ Will thee Sound Guy @6:54 oh, but for preservation purposes, photos might be good?
	6:56pm joe_rosevear: What did you say, Mark? Did you dis AI in favor of spending more money (higher wages)?
	6:56pm dale: ↳ dale @6:55 not meant for ken in hyde park.....
	🤖 6:57pm Webhamster Henry: I'm riding my father's 35+ year old Fuji Saratoga bike, but I upgraded the gear system this year.
	🤖 6:57pm Will thee Sound Guy: ↳ tim @6:56 Good to know. Most of the people in the clerks office that are good with maps will rescan it... But the original must exist and be scannable
	🤖 6:58pm tim: ↳ Will thee Sound Guy @6:57 Right!
	6:58pm Marie in Chicago: I had a steel Peugeot from the 80s that was like a tank--my fave adult bike. Lasted forever (a friend gave it to me in the 00s)
	🤖 6:58pm tim: Thanks, Mark!
	🤖 6:59pm Wendy del Formaggio: Thank you, Mark!
	🤖 6:59pm Bas NL: Thanks Mark! Have a nice break!
	6:59pm Marie in Chicago: Thanks, Mark and Kris!
	🤖 6:59pm Will thee Sound Guy: ↳ Marie in Chicago @6:56 Probably 10 years ago they lost a bunch of railroad maps... Lucky, one of the local surveyors had the whole catalog
	🤖 6:59pm chresti: Thanks Mark!
	7:00pm Androu B.: Thanks, Mark! Happy Thanksgiving to you!
	🤖 7:00pm Ken From Hyde Park: Thanks, Mark. The Simpsons last night showed a futuristic 3-D food printer spewing a Thanksgiving meal. Technology we can use!
	7:00pm SeaCreature: Feel like I need to pump in a quarter for this tune;)
	7:01pm Mark Hurst: Thanks, everyone!
	7:19pm joe_rosevear: ↳ Wendy del Formaggio @6:40 Well, OK. If that's how your personal ethics work, then go for it!

Techtonic with Mark Hurst: Playlist from November 20, 2023

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