Favoriting Techtonic with Mark Hurst: Playlist from December 11, 2023 Favoriting

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Conversations with creators and thinkers who are charting the way forward in a tech-saturated society. In our shift to a digital future, we need alternatives to Big Tech. Homepage: techtonic.fm

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Favoriting December 11, 2023: Guillaume Pitron, author, "The Dark Cloud"

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Today: Guillaume Pitron, author, “The Dark Cloud”

The Dark Cloud: The Hidden Costs of the Digital World, by Guillaume Pitron

Total Trust, documentary now playing at Film Forum (209 West Houston St in Manhattan) - through this Friday, Dec 15

A.I. Could Soon Need as Much Electricity as an Entire Country (NYT, Oct 10, 2023): “In a middle-ground scenario, by 2027 A.I. servers could use between 85 to 134 terawatt hours (Twh) annually. That’s similar to what Argentina, the Netherlands and Sweden each use in a year, and is about 0.5 percent of the world’s current electricity use.”

Big Tech’s thirst for AI dominance may bring literal thirst for everyone else (The Hustle, Aug 4, 2023): “Globally, data centers are forecast to consume 450m gallons of water daily by 2030, up from ~205m in 2016, according to data reviewed by Bloomberg. This is particularly worrisome for drought-stricken farming regions like Spain’s Talavera de la Reina, where a $1.1B Meta-planned data facility could gulp 176m gallons annually. . . . [And] a 20-question convo with ChatGPT equates to ~500 milliliters of water use, about the size of a water bottle.”

Critics Furious Microsoft Is Training AI by Sucking Up Water During Drought (Futurism, Sep 26, 2023): “Microsoft’s data centers in West Des Moines, Iowa guzzled massive amounts of water last year, the Associated Press reported earlier this month, to keep cool while training OpenAI’s ChatGPT-4, the Microsoft-backed company’s most advanced publicly available large language model. Critics point out a further inconvenient detail: this happened in the midst of a more than three-year drought, further taxing a stressed water system that’s been so dry this summer that nature lovers couldn’t even paddle canoes in local rivers.”

“. . . Microsoft increased worldwide water consumption by a whopping 34 percent — up to almost 1.7 billion gallons annually — last year, which outside researchers told the AP is most likely due to increased AI training. That’s dwarfed by Google, which used 5.6 billion gallons last year, a 20 percent jump that’s also likely attributable to machine learning.”

Arizona is running out of water. Big Tech data centers are partly to blame. (Insider, 2023): “[A few years ago] Google was planning a massive data center in Mesa, [Arizona,] just east of Phoenix. The deal guaranteed Google 1 million gallons of water a day to cool the facility, and up to 4 million gallons a day if it hit project milestones. (That’s a lot of water. Arizona residents each use about 146 gallons a day).”

Google Is Using A Flabbergasting Amount Of Water On AI (Futurism, July 28, 2023): “According to the tech giant’s 2023 Environmental Report, the company used an astronomical 5.6 billion gallons of water last year. That’s a 20 percent increase over its 2021 usage, which can likely be attributed in large part to Google’s growing AI efforts. Training these algorithms in massive data centers consumes immense amounts of energy, plus huge amounts of water for cooling. And the majority of this water isn’t even being pulled out of streams — it’s clean enough to be used as drinking water.”

“Digital and Sustainability” is not like “Q and U” (CB Bhattacharya, Sep 21, 2023): “Many of the metals, minerals, and rare elements necessary in the manufacture of digital devices are often harvested in the world’s conflict zones (e.g., the Democratic Republic of Congo) where child labor, slave labor, and violent and inhumane working conditions make the ‘inexpensive’ final product cost possible. This is true for devices built for personal use, but also for the devices that are used in mass deployment in data centers worldwide.”

Generating AI Images Uses as Much Energy as Charging Your Phone, Study Finds (Gizmodo, Dec 1, 2023): “Creating images with generative AI could use as much energy as charging your smartphone, according to a new study Friday that measures the environmental impact of generative AI models for the first time. Popular models like ChatGPT’s Dall-E and Midjourney may produce more carbon than driving 4 miles.

Every Bitcoin payment ‘uses a swimming pool of water’ (BBC, Nov 29, 2023): “Every Bitcoin transaction uses, on average, enough water to fill “a back yard swimming pool”, a new study suggests. That’s around six million times more than is used in a typical credit card swipe, Alex de Vries of Vrije Universiteit Amsterdam, calculates. . . . Up to three billion people worldwide already experience water shortages, a situation which is expected to worsen in the coming decades, the study notes.”

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Artist Track Images Approx. start time
  Guillaume Pitron, author, "The Dark Cloud"
Tomaš Dvořák  Game Boy Tune   Favoriting
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  Mark's intro  
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  Interview with Guillaume Pitron  
Favoriting
0:04:56 (MP3 | Pop-up)
  Mark's comments  
Favoriting
0:43:45 (MP3 | Pop-up)
Lulu Lewis  Destroy All Data   Favoriting
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0:54:25 (MP3 | Pop-up)


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Listener comments!

Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:00pm
ultradamno:

Mark! Techtonsperitases!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:01pm
David (in London):

Evening Mark and all Technoids.
  6:02pm
Gainstager Liquid:

last week was a dousey.. and made me get rid of distracting electronics.. now I ain't got nots to do.. thank ya
  6:02pm
malĥerbo (nl):

Hi Mark and Techtonicans
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:02pm
Wendy del Formaggio:

I'm here! I'm queer! I'm lurking! Hi Mark and Techtonicons.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:03pm
Bas NL:

Mark! Techtonicals!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:04pm
Will thee Sound Guy:

Good evening Mark Hurst and all!!!
Avatar 🤖 6:08pm
herb.nyc:

Hi cat video lovers. Dark Cloud? Wasn’t Douglas Wolk’s label called dark beloved cloud?

Haha, Wi-Fi in Barcelona. No wonder basil fawlty mocks his hotel worker manuel He always sez “never mind him. He’s from Barcelona”
  6:08pm
Gainstager Liquid:

assuming any identity unbenownst to your sensibilities might cause cognitive dissonance.
Avatar 🤖 6:09pm
MarciB:

I'm thrilled you're covering this topic. As a photo manager, this is always on my mind. Our industry group had a presentation this summer by a group of members in Europe. And they were mostly against the cloud! It's one reason why I work with analog items only now (though I digitize photos, and struggle with how to best tell clients to store them. Looking forward to reading this!
  6:09pm
Sam:

It’s got to be good for the environment though to have so many folks trapped at home in front of screens instead of going out, using fuel, littering and otherwise wreaking havoc on nature.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:10pm
Mark Hurst:

Hi @ultra, @Dil, @Gainstager, @Wendy, @Bas, @WilltSG, @herb, @Marci, Sam! Glad you're here.
Avatar 6:13pm
VantuckyEd:

A great topic. As an illustrator I'm seeing art careers being killed left and right by fools using AI image generation.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:16pm
PaulRobeson1923:

I’m wondering, How much electricity do washrooms use!?

Good eveningggggg
  6:17pm
Dean:

I was just sharing with our eminent host how much I despise Jobs. Aesthetic appreciation of Apple gear baffles me.
  6:18pm
Dean:

Having been a sys admin at a library in the early '90s, I have no illusions about the immateriality of the Internet.
  6:18pm
Sam:

I think iPhones are so ugly. They just make me think of the decline of humanity and how they’ve ruined human relationships and genuine experiences.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:20pm
tim:

Ugh! Environmentalism through consumption. Don’t those buttholes see that buying shit isn’t god for the environment?
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:20pm
tim:

Hi Mark! Hi crew!
  6:21pm
Dean:

Wait... Somebody threw away the Eiffel Tower?!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:21pm
PaulRobeson1923:

↳ PaulRobeson1923 @6:16
Smart washrooms!
Avatar 6:22pm
VantuckyEd:

Here's another scary thing: Google is supposedly training their AI image generator off the photos uploaded to your Google Photos account--And there's no way to opt out of it!
  6:22pm
gauche knee:

LOVE this topic esp rn as we see the latest restrictive & performative bull @ COP 28.
  6:23pm
Sam:

I accidentally put my phone in my cup of coffee, and it was done for.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:23pm
tim:

↳ PaulRobeson1923 @6:21
I REALLY prefer dumb washrooms. The stupider the better!
  6:23pm
Dean:

Did you buy a new cup of coffee?
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:24pm
Mark Hurst:

↳ Sam @6:23
Sorry to hear that the phone ruined a perfectly good cup of coffee.
Avatar 🤖 6:24pm
herb.nyc:

Mark said EWASTE. I saw my pal earlier, at his wall st office. He gave me a non used laptop, only a few yrs old, HP model hsn 113c4. Looks lovely
  6:24pm
Sam:

↳ Dean @6:23
Yes. It was the only solution!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:24pm
PaulRobeson1923:

↳ tim @6:23
Lotta valuable screen time in those washroom.
Avatar 🤖 6:25pm
herb.nyc:

I take my coffee w a little milk and no cellphone
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:25pm
paddy in matawan:

massive massive data center campus with multiple giant buildings going in nearby. very nervous about this. This land was all undeveloped.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:26pm
Mennlinn Rebarts:

Well before the eWaste, just the manufacturing of microelectronics is super energy consumptive.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:26pm
Mark Hurst:

If you're in NYC, take your surveillance devices to an e-waste collection event run by the Lower East Side Ecology Center - www.lesecologycenter.org... - you might see listener Herb there!
  6:26pm
Dean:

Related to the invisibility of data centers, the American Bar Ass'n not long ago distributed proposals for law school accreditation requirements in which they suggested that the law school libraries did not need "a physical plant." The assumption could only be that all information transfer occurs in "the ether," in "the cloud," ergo no bricks or mortar are required. They were soon disabused of this fanciful dream.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:27pm
tim:

↳ PaulRobeson1923 @6:24
One of the very few pieces of advice I give others is don’t use your goddamn phone in the bathroom!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:27pm
ultradamno:

Line in a TV show called School Spirits in a scene set during a school assembly about a missing student, one cheerleader says the girl's body hasn't been found but they think her phone is still on school grounds, the second cheerleader says "she doesn't have her phone? That. Is. SO. Sad.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:28pm
Will thee Sound Guy:

Summer of George
Avatar 🤖 6:28pm
herb.nyc:

↳ Mark Hurst @6:26
Thank you for mentioning LES Ecology Center. Born 1987 and still evolving, like w food justice programs
Avatar 🤖 6:28pm
MarciB:

↳ VantuckyEd @6:22
Yup - which is why I tell friends, family, colleagues and clients to not store photos on Big Tech platforms. And I get called a Luddite (and not in the good Brian Merchant "Blood in the Machine" way).
  6:28pm
Deano de los Muertos:

Mark’s gettin upset!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:30pm
PaulRobeson1923:

↳ tim @6:27
Just try and stop any freedom loving American from using their smart phone on the can
  6:31pm
Sam:

In ireland energy consumption is Dublin every year!
  6:32pm
Dean:

Maybe even Triplin.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:32pm
PaulRobeson1923:

↳ PaulRobeson1923 @6:30
Come & take it
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:32pm
tim:

↳ PaulRobeson1923 @6:30
Damn! You got me. I will not be the John heavy!
  6:33pm
Amsterdam:

Please, everybody just put down dee phone, smoke a joint and relax, ok?
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:33pm
PaulRobeson1923:

↳ tim @6:32
We’re in this Together, friend
  6:33pm
Marie in Chicago:

We need the news media to get all over this
  6:35pm
Dean:

Well, jeez, take out your smartphone and calculate the F of the C!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:35pm
tim:

↳ PaulRobeson1923 @6:33
Do you mind? I’m a little indisposed at the moment. Juan occupado!
  6:37pm
Sam:

Well it is good they’re saving on AC
  6:37pm
Marie in Chicago:

Thank you, Mark and Guillaume!
Avatar 🤖 6:38pm
MarciB:

It's like everywhere you turn, you're complicit. I can only get FMU on my iPad (but hooked up thru my Tivoli radio with a cable, not bluetooth).
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:38pm
PaulRobeson1923:

↳ tim @6:35
Please, let’s FaceTime later, ok? please?
  6:38pm
Marie in Chicago:

I'm going to reach out to some of the larger environmental protection nonprofits
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:39pm
Webhamster Henry:

And ... nuke plants are also big water consumers... Some of these data centers are built in cold places so they need less energy to cool them, just sayin'
  6:39pm
Sam:

Maybe they could save water and cool their expensive machines with champagne.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:39pm
Mark Hurst:

↳ MarciB @6:38
An audio stream from FMU requires a lot less bandwidth than a surveillance-ridden YouTube video or Facebook/Instagram feed.
  6:39pm
Marie in Chicago:

↳ Sam @6:39
Maybe they could use grapes
  6:40pm
Sam:

↳ Marie in Chicago @6:39
Or children’s tears
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:40pm
Mark Hurst:

↳ Webhamster Henry @6:39
I get it - just feels wrong for Facebook data centers to be heating up the Arctic.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:41pm
tim:

↳ PaulRobeson1923 @6:38
Aw, sure. What the hell.
  6:41pm
Marie in Chicago:

↳ Sam @6:40
yes, or fetal blood
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:41pm
ultradamno:

Grok has outsmarted Musk... www.forbes.com...
Avatar 🤖 6:41pm
MarciB:

↳ Mark Hurst @6:39
thank goodness!
  6:41pm
Sam:

↳ Mark Hurst @6:40
Every time you watch a cute cat video a polar bear dies
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:43pm
tim:

Is the Swedish Te$la workers still on strike?
  6:43pm
gauche knee:

I hear you ,Marci B. I think we should keep the saying “ perfection is the enemy of the good “ in mind.
  6:44pm
Sam:

Gotta love the iPhone being inspired by the Buddhist aesthetic. The iPhone and the internet it’s attached to is the antithesis of the Buddhist approach to life.
  6:46pm
Marie in Chicago:

↳ Sam @6:44
absolutely, like bring some Buddhism into your stinking capitalism
Avatar 🤖 6:47pm
MarciB:

↳ gauche knee @6:43
yes indeed!
  6:47pm
?:

Thank you, Mr. Hurst, for your stunning and important interview with Guillaume Pitron. If each of us pointed 5 people to his work...
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:47pm
PaulRobeson1923:

↳ tim @6:41
Facetime in the shower, OK. Facetime on the can, not ok? Where do we go from here?
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:48pm
tim:

Thanks Mark and Guillaume!
Avatar 🤖 6:48pm
MarciB:

↳ @6:47
I plan to share it and read it!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:48pm
paddy in matawan:

great show!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:49pm
tim:

It’s Complicated is a very good follow up to Techtonic.
  6:50pm
Sam:

The air over NJ would be so much cleaner if WFMU didn’t broadcast so much hippie noise.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:51pm
ultradamno:

Mandl's guest tonight mastodon.social...
  6:51pm
Sam:

When my grandma got me my first Walkman! Oh my god!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:52pm
PaulRobeson1923:

Yea! Too long! Too long!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:52pm
tim:

MATT WARWICK!!!!

I love when Matt makes an appearance.
  6:53pm
Dean:

Facetime during a colonoscopy
  6:53pm
Sam:

I love when they tell normal shmucks like us to take shorter showers while this crap goes on.
  6:54pm
mr 6:

Best test subject on TechTonic is Matt Warwick
  6:55pm
Dean:

Yeah, I don't give much attention to recycling, to gunning my car's engine, to voting. Even if all of us complied, we'd see very little improvement.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:55pm
paddy in matawan:

Make Water Beer Not Computers!!!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:56pm
ultradamno:

↳ tim @6:43
He's pretty upset about the depiction of the cars in Leave The World Behind www.comicsands.com...
  6:56pm
Dean:

I don't like smoking, but I'm thinking of taking it up, just to be a contrarian asshole.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:56pm
bleubombersune:

Governor Katie Hobbs just negated the alfalfa farm deal with the Saudi government that previous Gov. Ducey signed.
  6:56pm
Deano de los Muertos:

Thanks Mark, look forward to the future shows
Avatar 6:56pm
VantuckyEd:

That explains Google's office space on the pier of the hudson river in NYC. Gotta keep them servers cool...as it sucks up NYC resources.
  6:57pm
Marie in Chicago:

bitcoin is like so regressive and transgressive and it is benefiting so few people
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:57pm
bleubombersune:

Mark, great interview Thanks
  6:57pm
Sam:

If they use ocean water it isn’t really a problem, right? Nobody was going to drink that anyway.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:58pm
Will thee Sound Guy:

Thank you Mark and Guillaume!!!
  6:58pm
wind:

Bye Mark ♥️
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:58pm
tim:

Thanks Mark!
  6:58pm
Marie in Chicago:

↳ Sam @6:57
prolly heating it and killing nearby ecosystems\
  6:59pm
wind:

No. And the fish don’t need it either Sam. 🙃
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:59pm
Mark Hurst:

Thanks, everyone!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 7:00pm
Wendy del Formaggio:

Thanks, Mark!
  7:00pm
P-90:

Thanks!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 7:01pm
ultradamno:

Wait...getting contrarians to give themselves cancer was an option this whole time?
  2:53pm
cvh:

https://variety.com/2023/digital/news/active-listening-marketers-smartphones-ad-targeting-cox-media-group-1235841007/
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