Favoriting Techtonic with Mark Hurst: Playlist from January 8, 2024 Favoriting

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Conversations with creators and thinkers who are charting the way forward in a tech-saturated society. In our shift to a digital future, we need alternatives to Big Tech. Homepage: techtonic.fm

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Favoriting January 8, 2024: Jason Koebler, from 404 Media, on cameras from a banned Chinese company

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By Polish cartoonist Kasia Babis. Click to zoom in.
By Polish cartoonist Kasia Babis. Click to zoom in.
Favoriting
By Polish cartoonist Kasia Babis. Click to zoom in.

Today: Jason Koebler, from 404 Media, on cameras from a banned Chinese company

• Happy 300th episode (hosted by Mark)!

• Abour our guest: Jason Koebler is a cofounder of 404 Media. He was previously the editor-in-chief of Motherboard. He loves the Freedom of Information Act and surfing.

• 404 Media, recently cofounded by Jason

• New Jersey Used COVID Relief Funds to Buy Banned Chinese Surveillance Cameras (by Jason Koebler in 404 Media, Jan 4, 2024): “Cameras sold to police throughout New Jersey were made by a banned Chinese company but were modified to have different colors and the company’s logo removed, court records show.”

• Facebook Is Being Overrun With Stolen, AI-Generated Images That People Think Are Real (by Jason Koebler in 404 Media, Dec 18, 2023): “Facebook is doing essentially nothing to help its users decipher real content from AI-generated content masquerading as real content, and that huge masses of Facebook users are completely unprepared for our AI-generated future.”

Relevant past shows

• On ALPRs (automated license plate readers): July 19, 2021 show with Jon Fasman, author, We See It All: Liberty and Justice in an Age of Perpetual Surveillance

• On the spread of facial recognition: October 30, 2023 show with Kashmir Hill, author, Your Face Belongs to Us: A Secretive Startup’s Quest to End Privacy as We Know It

• On surveillance in Xinjiang, China: April 22, 2019 show with NYT’s Paul Mozur

• On Uyghur oppression in Xinjiang: January 17, 2022 and December 19, 2022 shows with Darren Byler, author, In the Camps: China’s High-Tech Penal Colony

• On life in the Chinese prison state: June 7, 2021 show: Amelia Pang, author, Made in China: A Prisoner, an SOS Letter, and the Hidden Cost of America's Cheap Goods

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Artist Track Comments Images Approx. start time
  Jason Koebler, from 404 Media, on surveillance cams from a banned Chinese company
Tomaš Dvořák  Game Boy Tune   Favoriting  
Favoriting
 
  Mark's intro    
Favoriting
 
  Interview with Jason Koebler    
Favoriting
0:05:03 (MP3 | Pop-up)
  Mark's comments    
Favoriting
0:42:26 (MP3 | Pop-up)
Why Bother?  Eyes Everywhere   Favoriting thanks to Wendy from Wreck Your Own Adventure! 
Favoriting
0:53:23 (MP3 | Pop-up)


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Listener comments!

Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 5:59pm
Handy Haversack:

Hey, Mark, all.
  6:01pm
Rolando:

Good Morning All 😊
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:01pm
tim:

Hello Mark “Give ‘em Hell” Hurst!

Hello Handy and crew!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:02pm
tim:

↳ Rolando @6:01
Where are you tuning in from, Rolando?
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:03pm
Webhamster Henry:

Happy new SURVEILLANCE year!
Avatar 6:04pm
Rolando:

@Tim - Sunshine Coast Australia 🏖️
  6:05pm
P.Welles:

Happy new year!
  6:05pm
Adi from Sheffield:

Good evening, seeing out the remains of the day before I go to sleep.
  6:05pm
Sam:

Congratulations on 300 shows!!
  6:06pm
Sam:

You should’ve saved this one for your 404th show, heh heh.
Avatar 🤖 6:06pm
MarciB:

Thanks to this show, I subscribe to 404 Media - and it's revelatory.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:06pm
tim:

↳ Rolando @6:04
Cheers, mate! I’m tuning in from about 2 hours south of Chicago.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:08pm
chresti:

Hi Mark and techtonicians!
Avatar 6:08pm
Rolando:

Mark - I'm so sorry I have missed a number of shows. Then End of School Year, has been so busy, and could not fit it all in - Shame on me for allowing myself to get sucked into the busy season.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:09pm
Handy Haversack:

↳ MarciB @6:06
Yes, great organization.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:10pm
Mark Hurst:

Handy, tim, Webham, Rolando, P.Welles, Adi, Sam, Marci - thanks for joining this evening!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:10pm
Bas NL:

Hi Mark! Hi all!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:10pm
Mark Hurst:

↳ Rolando @6:08
No worries, the archives are there for you :)
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:10pm
Mark Hurst:

↳ Bas NL @6:10
Welcome, Bas!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:11pm
chris in the redwoods:

this is a great reminder for me to throw some coins in 404 media's tip jar. such a cool resource!
and hello, Mark and everyone!
  6:11pm
P.Welles:

This show is a real public service
  6:12pm
John:

Mark — great to meet you Saturday night. Great show.
Avatar 6:12pm
Rolando:

@Tim - Current time in Queensland, Australia is GMT+10 so its 9:09AM on Tuesday here. So to Marks point earlier - welcoming future listeners to the show - That would be me 10 hours in the future. ⏱️
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:13pm
Bas NL:

[Not Made In China]
  6:14pm
Old Dave:

Hey, does my Dollar Store "fake" surveillance cam with the impressive flashing red LED actually contain a battery powered camera in the smoked dome thingy?
It was made in China...
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:15pm
tim:

↳ Rolando @6:12
Cool. Thanks for the info. I’m on hour behind New Jersey. It’s 5:13 pm here. You’re a man of the future and I’m behind the times.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:16pm
tim:

The greatest excuse of all time. “Well, I didn’t know!”
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:16pm
Mark Hurst:

↳ John @6:12
Nice meeting you, too, John! Thanks for joining this evening.
Avatar 6:17pm
Rolando:

Speaking generally - Australians view themselves as the lucky country and people so folks are very relaxed especially here in Queenland - Seldom complain - What this means now is that we have large (very tall poles) with cameras all along our freeway, they are popping up everywhere on the beaches, and coastal walks. There is basically nowhere we can avoid camera's and on one is complaining about it. - I find it somewhat concerning.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:17pm
Mike Sin:

Just read an article about this very topic in the NY Times last week... more than a $30 million deal.
Avatar 6:22pm
Rolando:

I plan to write to our local council to find out how long the data is stored, how it is being used, who has access to it. What data are they collection. Rupert Murdoch owns the almost the entire news network here ( as you know ) and well we get a lot of happy talk going on about how lucky we are. But boy oh boy they were nasty during covid restrictions, so it's not neutral at all. - (in my opinon). - it's the same excuse - here let me keep you SAFE. !!! I don't want to be SAFE - I want to be FREEE !!!!!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:22pm
chresti:

↳ tim @6:16
"nobody told me!"
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:24pm
Ken From Hyde Park:

↳ Rolando @6:22
Then when you're branded as a troublemaker, they'll put up five more cameras up on your street.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:24pm
tim:

↳ chresti @6:22
Exactly! That’s an excuse a pickleball player would use!
  6:25pm
just blaze:

↳ tim @6:24
i think you mean tennisito, formally known as pickleball
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:26pm
chresti:

↳ tim @6:24
That's right! They're a slippery bunch!
  6:26pm
P.Welles:

beyond the X Ray Specs
Avatar 6:28pm
Rolando:

Even Douglas Rushkoff in his most recent episode raised a eyebrow in the direction of Covid ... @Ken yes, and I'm in the country on 2 acres of land, and like you say just down the road is a camera at the corner, which means that I can't even leave the one - easily if lets say the wanted to keep a eye on me :) - luckily I'm a peaceful benevolent sort of person with a reasonable reputations but but even then they get it wrong - OFTEN and next thing you know you have a Black Flag / Black Balled sort of label.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:28pm
tim:

↳ just blaze @6:25
Them too!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:30pm
Bas NL:

Location logging (24/7) was just removed from our company emergency response app. I got angry about it to the head of the service... :)
  6:31pm
Sam:

Polish trains designed to break…. Sounds like a bad joke.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:31pm
tim:

↳ Bas NL @6:30
Good job, Bas!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:32pm
Handy Haversack:

↳ Bas NL @6:30
They put in key cards for the first time at work, supplied by a very dodgy company that also of course has an app (which clearly I can't use). But I managed to convince the HR person to let me keep using a physical key instead. If it ain't broke ...
Avatar 6:33pm
Rolando:

Am I right in thinking this is the 404 Media website? www.404media.co
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:33pm
Handy Haversack:

↳ Rolando @6:33
Yup.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:34pm
Bas NL:

↳ tim @6:31
Data was stored for 34 months and could be requested any time by my employer.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:37pm
Peter from Saranac Lake NY:

Long time listener, occasional commenter. Hello Mark and everyone.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:37pm
Mark Hurst:

↳ Peter from Saranac Lake NY @6:37
Hi Peter, thanks for joining!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:38pm
Mark Hurst:

↳ Bas NL @6:34
Well worth raising a complaint - nice work!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:38pm
Folsom:

↳ Handy Haversack @6:32
Our CEO is obsessed with percentage of people going into the office, he puts tables of different offices that shows how many people show up on his internal meetings.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:39pm
tim:

↳ Bas NL @6:34
They have no business with that information about you.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:41pm
Bas NL:

One could hire a lock box at a local music hall. 'Scan the QR code and you get a 4 euro access code through your gmail (a gmail account could be made for free in one go.
Well.... no. The service desk grouchily offered an option. I could pay 2 euro by direct debit card for a locker. I payed and she gave a 2 euro coin..
'It's for those old lockers in the back.'
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:41pm
Webhamster Henry:

We need a "verified robot" badge!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:41pm
tim:

Would Facebook shut down the group on fb that’s tracking the ai images?
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:43pm
Handy Haversack:

↳ tim @6:41
Well, they won't shut down pedophile image-sharing groups, but if the AI-detecting ones threatened their bottom line ...
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:43pm
Webhamster Henry:

Any thing that looks "too good to be true" is in fact too good to be true.
  6:43pm
Jason Koebler:

Hey everyone! This is Jason at 404 - thanks so much for listening. I'm around if you have any specific questions
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:43pm
chresti:

They use AI to create regurgitated content? Will they continue when no live person is on facebook?
Avatar 6:44pm
Rolando:

I've managed to avoid AI - but increasingly I'm feeling the pressure. So for example I'd like a good voice to text app, bit guess what they all use Whisper !!! so what do we do? in the end we are going to be pushed into using BSD / Linux and hanging out on SDF.org which is one of the last vestiges of technology freedom.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:44pm
Mark Hurst:

Hey Jason, thanks for joining! And thanks for this great interview.
  6:44pm
Jason Koebler:

Sorry I'm late :]
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:44pm
Handy Haversack:

↳ Jason Koebler @6:43
Really respect 404's ethos and methodology, Jason! Thanks for being here.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:45pm
Webhamster Henry:

There's a movement in the comix creator community to ban or at least isolate ML-assisted/created artist booths at comic-cons.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:45pm
Bas NL:

↳ Jason Koebler @6:44
Hello and thanks Jason!
  6:46pm
Jason Koebler:

Everyone who listened, thank you so much, it means a lot. I can't wait to go back through all the previous Techntonic episodes - Mark is a national treasure!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:46pm
chresti:

Thanks Jason!
  6:47pm
P.Welles:

↳ Jason Koebler @6:46
good points
  6:47pm
mechamaiko:

Loved this interview, following 404 media now! Happy 300th Mark!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:47pm
DjLorraine:

Thanks Jason!
Avatar 6:47pm
Rolando:

@ Jason Koebler - Thank you. Your podcast looks interesting too. - Thank you again. "The Truth will set us Free."
  Swag For Life Member 6:47pm
biomurph:

↳ Webhamster Henry @6:45
yeah, that's tough. there are folks making amazing creative work with AI and attributing. They should not be banned, but everyone should disclose their sources
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:48pm
Webhamster Henry:

Jason could be a recurring guest with articles like these!
  6:48pm
P.Welles:

Mark ROCKS too!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:48pm
tim:

↳ Jason Koebler @6:46
Hey Jason! Thanks for the conversation!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:48pm
Handy Haversack:

Worker-owned journalism fits in well with the WFMU ethos as well.
Avatar 🤖 6:48pm
Noir Lover:

↳ Jason Koebler @6:46
Great segment
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:49pm
chris in the redwoods:

thanks, Jason! proudly just became a monthly subscriber!
  6:49pm
mateo:

Thanks guys this was gret
  6:50pm
Jason Koebler:

↳ chris in the redwoods @6:49
thank you!!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:50pm
Webhamster Henry:

↳ biomurph @6:47
I'm one of them ! MidJourney is my pal! Also I made this really crazy audio piece the other day: GPT-2 wrote it, eleven labs narrated it, Riffusion made up the music and singing: jhhl.net...
  6:50pm
mechamaiko:

Now I wanna rewatch The Wire.
  6:51pm
Jason Koebler:

↳ Webhamster Henry @6:50
wow this is really interesting. cool use of the tech, and not like a lot of AI music i've heard before
  6:53pm
Old Dave:

Say it, Preacher
  6:53pm
P.Welles:

bless you Mark
  6:53pm
mechamaiko:

We love u Mark! Go off!
  Swag For Life Member 6:54pm
biomurph:

↳ Webhamster Henry @6:50
well good for you! have a safe and healthy relationship with your machine learning bot
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:54pm
JReganK:

We need a Technology Bill of Rights Immediately!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:54pm
chris in the redwoods:

thanks, Mark!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:54pm
tim:

Thanks, Mark! We need you for 300 more!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:55pm
Will thee Sound Guy:

Been listening, great show Mark and Jason!!! Thank you!!!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:55pm
Will thee Sound Guy:

Happy 300 Mark Hurst!!!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:55pm
Webhamster Henry:

↳ biomurph @6:54
I've been doing generated / AI -ish art since the mid 70s!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:55pm
Bas NL:

Thanks and congrats for a great 300th edition of Techtonic Mark!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:56pm
Webhamster Henry:

Happy 300th , Mark! too bad we didn't flag show #256, a computer friendly number!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:56pm
JReganK:

Thnx, Mark!
  Swag For Life Member 6:56pm
biomurph:

↳ Webhamster Henry @6:55
omg, are you emeritis faculty at UCSD?
  6:56pm
wenzo:

Get off GooGoo?
  6:56pm
P.Welles:

lol!
  Swag For Life Member 6:57pm
biomurph:

Happy 300 Mark!!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:57pm
Webhamster Henry:

↳ biomurph @6:56
Naww, but I used Pecan system / UCSD Pascal in the early 80s!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:57pm
chresti:

Googoo great show, thanks Mark!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:57pm
Bas NL:

↳ Song: "Eyes Everywhere" by "Why Bother?"
Nice!!
  6:57pm
mateo:

300 pearls from our treasure!!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:58pm
tim:

↳ Song: "Eyes Everywhere" by "Why Bother?"
Is this Mark E Smith’s death mask?
  Swag For Life Member 6:58pm
biomurph:

↳ Webhamster Henry @6:57
go go Mr. Hamster! Hope to chat with you again!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:58pm
chris in the redwoods:

↳ Webhamster Henry @6:57
my second language. basic, of course, being first.
  6:59pm
P-90:

Thanks Mark!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:59pm
listener 126464:

Thanks, Mark & Jason.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:59pm
bleubombersune:

Mark Thanks
Avatar 6:59pm
Rolando:

Thank you Mark, Jason and everyone in WFMU chat.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 7:00pm
JReganK:

↳ tim @6:58
I think it is!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 7:09pm
Handy Haversack:

Thanks, Mark! Happy 300th!
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