Favoriting Techtonic with Mark Hurst: Playlist from January 18, 2021 Favoriting

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Conversations with creators and thinkers who are charting the way forward in a tech-saturated society. In our shift to a digital future, we need alternatives to Big Tech. Homepage: techtonic.fm

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Favoriting January 18, 2021: Sarah Brayne, author, "Predict and Surveil: Data, Discretion, and the Future of Policing."

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via <a href="https://twitter.com/katerinareports/status/1346017029547913217" target="_blank">Katerina Ang</a>, Jan 4, 2021
via Katerina Ang, Jan 4, 2021
Favoriting
via Katerina Ang, Jan 4, 2021

Tonight: Sarah Brayne, author, "Predict and Surveil: Data, Discretion, and the Future of Policing"

Links:

• @sarah_brayne (Twitter)

• Predict and Surveil: Data, Discretion, and the Future of Policing

• When Police Surveillance Meets the 'Internet of Things' (Brennan Center, Dec 16, 2020): "Connected devices raise serious privacy concerns, as they can reveal sensitive information about people’s homes, movements, and interactions with others. As of 2019, nearly 70 percent of American households had at least one such gadget."

• Google Proceeds With Fitbit Deal, but Government Reviews Continue (WSJ, Jan 14, 2021)

- - -

PAST EPISODES: techtonic.fm lists recent Techtonic interviews and Little Slice of Tech Pie segments.

PODCAST: Subscribe to the Techtonic podcast

Artist Track Album Label Images Approx. start time
  Surveillance and policing with Sarah Brayne, author, "Predict and Surveil"
Tomaš Dvořák  Game Boy Tune   Favoriting Machinarium Soundtrack  n/a 
Favoriting
 
  Mark's intro      
Favoriting
 
  Interview with Sarah Brayne      
Favoriting
0:17:11 (Pop-up)
  Mark's comments      
Favoriting
0:53:28 (Pop-up)
MC Hammer  Can't Touch This / Tiny Dancer (Andy Rehfeldt mashup)   Favoriting n/a  n/a 
Favoriting
0:56:27 (Pop-up)


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Listener comments!

Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:00pm
listener james from westwood:

Ooh, this'n's gonna be good.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:00pm
Handy Haversack:

Mark and the Techyon Drives!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:01pm
DjLorraine:

May i sit in, please?
  6:01pm
David in London:

Evening Technoids. Howdy Mark.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:01pm
Bas NL:

Mark! Bigtechtonicums!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:01pm
PaulRobeson1920:

Oh I second that emotion!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:02pm
rita popova:

so excited for this
Avatar 6:02pm
TDK60:

Hi Mark.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:03pm
Handy Haversack:

The Techtonic Athletic Gear Collection is fetching crazy-high prices in the secondary market.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:03pm
melinda:

hi friends
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:04pm
Webhamster Henry:

Hi Mark and surveilled ones.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:04pm
-Ken:

Hi all! Just watched MLK/FBI which was good and goes into great detail on the insane surveillance of MLK, and RFK and LBJ's complicity in it.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:04pm
Bas NL:

Too true..
Avatar 6:05pm
northguineahills:

@Ken: the King in the Wilderness doc mentioned that he couldn't get professional mental help, as he knew the Hoover was tracking him, and the stigma of such a relation would kill his movement...
Avatar 6:06pm
Fredericks:

Pasco County Sheriff's Office use predictive policing to harass kids who haven't done anything wrong "yet." projects.tampabay.com...
Avatar 6:07pm
HyperDose:

To keep tabs on the hippies!
Avatar 6:07pm
northguineahills:

@Fredericks, Tampa Bay is gonna Tampa Bay (I'm in Orlando).
Avatar 6:08pm
Fredericks:

I knew you were in Florida, NGH.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:08pm
-Ken:

The MLK/FBI doc has tons of footage of FBI bugs and devices. It all looks so primitive now, like Stasi-style spycraft
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:08pm
PaulRobeson1920:

LBJ in private considered what Nixon and Kissinger did on the eve of the 1968 election- treason. Kissinger was in Vietnam sabotaging the peace talks...
Avatar 6:09pm
Fredericks:

Maybe someday we can meet at a Heatwave.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:09pm
Greg from ZONE 5:

Evening, Mark & all!
Avatar 6:09pm
northguineahills:

"By the Time I get to Arizona" (PE)

and "Alabama" (john coltrane) are my to-go MLK Day songs....
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:12pm
Ken From Hyde Park:

Hello, Mark and the life techarquatic!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:12pm
melinda:

@Ken thanks for the recommendation
Avatar 6:12pm
HyperDose:

Snowden says the same thing. It's not about having anything to hide, it's about being entitled to privacy as a right. American hero right there.
  6:13pm
Carmichael:

Heya Mark and tech faces.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:13pm
rita popova:

i hear this argument a lot actually - like yeah, spy on me I want better ads!
Avatar 6:13pm
northguineahills:

@Paul: As much as Kissinger was evil, the main reason was that nguyen van thieu (the s vietnamese prez), was laundering money and attacking the non-catholic majority of the nation, making any agreements null,
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:13pm
Webhamster Henry:

And you can watch "The Conversation" for a good bunch of 70s era spy equipment and techniques.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:13pm
melinda:

@rita it's a depressingly common sentiment
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:13pm
dale:

can we go out with moms mabley's version of abraham martin and john?
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:14pm
melinda:

@Henry cool film
  Swag For Life Member 6:14pm
drew:

And once again you blame tech when the culprit is capitalism. MLK was a self-proclaimed socialist revolutionary. Wonder why the feds spied on him?
Avatar 6:14pm
northguineahills:

@Henry: The Conversation is an amazing movie (sort of a take of Antonioni's "Blow-up"
  6:14pm
Listener Robert:

What I'm wondering is how many people would ask, "They spied on King? What'd they find out?"
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:15pm
coelacanth∅:

what about #4?: well they're keeping us safe from the terrorists.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:15pm
Richy4619:

this program is so necessary. thanks for what you do, Mark.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:15pm
Richy4619:

@drew, the culprit in my eyes is almost always capitali$m
  6:15pm
queems:

trying to focus long enough to pay attention to this conversation
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:16pm
Webhamster Henry:

The "reasonable search and seizure" 4th amendment phrase means "no fishing for possible crimes"
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:17pm
Bas NL:

At least Whatsapp has delayed their introduction of metadata mining..
Avatar 6:18pm
HyperDose:

@Webhamster Henry How about that civil forfeiture
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:18pm
a polished polish lady:

re: Luddites: Enoch did make them, Enoch shall break them!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:18pm
coelacanth∅:

i was offered a spy device (scamazon ring) for free with a subscription to something or other NOT scamazon related. (i forget what...maybe a cable service package)
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:19pm
Handy Haversack:

We had a very frustrating argument with our friends this weekend that you just perfectly recapitulated, Mark.
Avatar 6:22pm
HyperDose:

I almost didn't buy a printer because it said something about Amazon Alexa. Luckily there is no microphone built-in, it just pairs with Alexa. Still creepy that we have to take extra steps to avoid bugging our own homes.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:22pm
Mark Hurst:

Hi JamesFW, Handy, Lorraine, DiL, Bas, PaulR, Rita, TDK, Melinda, Webham, Staysh, ngh, Fredericks, HyperDose, KfHP, Greg, Carmichael, Dale, Robert, Coel, drew, Richy, queems, PPLady!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:22pm
PaulRobeson1920:

It would be like trying to do Philosophy in smoke signals, trying to argue for or against any economic system on this chat board... the form excludes the content
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:23pm
melinda:

@Hyperdose it's quite frustrating
  6:23pm
Dj:

You are SOooo naive. Everybody spies. Just look at the NSA, the democratic party...!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:24pm
PaulRobeson1920:

“can’t have guns and butter” War is Immoral. MLK spoke to this
  6:24pm
queems:

for xmas my bf bought me a firestick, jailbroke it, and then drilled out the microphone so it can’t spy on me
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:27pm
Webhamster Henry:

www.predpol.com << visit, and wait for fun ads to pop up in your various ad supported streams.
Avatar 6:27pm
northguineahills:

I've had a buzzer before, but not even an analog doorbell (when I had a house in Gainesville). If someone is going to visit, they will text. Never had a porch pirate (pays to know your neighbors).
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:27pm
Mark Hurst:

@queems that's straight out of a scifi movie ("wait, I have to make this thing safe" - and then the drill starts up)
  6:27pm
Dave Doll:

Thanks Mark for the love and courage you send into the WFMU ocean of blessed listeners.
Avatar 6:28pm
HyperDose:

Pattern predicting can lead to social engineering for nefarious purposes. A slippery slope.
  6:28pm
queems:

@mark there’s inevitably more where that came from
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:29pm
Webhamster Henry:

Thanks to social media, you don't need a real person to be an agent provocateur.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:31pm
Handy Haversack:

Hey, queems!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:31pm
listener james from westwood:

"As the anthropologist Nick Seaver puts it, 'algorithms are not autonomous technical objects, but complex sociotechnical systems. While discourses about algorithms sometimes describe them as "unsupervised," working without a human in the loop, in practice there are no unsupervised algorithms. If you cannot see a human in the loop, you just need to look for a bigger loop.'"
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:31pm
Handy Haversack:

Nice one, James.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:32pm
Mark Hurst:

Thanks, James. "We're gonna need a bigger loop."
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:32pm
listener james from westwood:

It's Prof. Brayne's quote, so all credit to her!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:32pm
listener james from westwood:

@Mark: I'll take my chances with a shark over Facebook!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:33pm
Bas NL:

We've got surveillance cars with cameras driving around all the time in The Netherlands scanning licenses plates.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:35pm
listener james from westwood:

@Bas: Yikes and double-yikes, given the 20th-century history of the country.
  6:36pm
evan:

oh my god the pun in sarah's book's title is Excellent
  6:36pm
queems:

howdy @handy!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:38pm
Mark Hurst:

@James I'd say that sharks run Facebook, but that would make sharks look bad
  6:40pm
Carmichael:

Have we talked about the Patriot Act yet?
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:40pm
Bas NL:

And it's executed by a entity called 'handhaving' which translates as 'enforcement'. They have powers that go beyond those of regular police. Serious discussion ensued after their request to be allowed to carry arms; which is not granted yet.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:41pm
watchpocket:

Almost all local police now have "stingrays," (aka IMSI catchers) which mimic cell towers. They get them from the FBI only by signing NDAs - gag orders about where & how they got them. Big problem. en.wikipedia.org...
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:42pm
Mark Hurst:

@evan good one... a little different from "protect and serve"
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:43pm
Mark Hurst:

The Brennan Center report that Sarah just mentioned is listed in the links at left.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:44pm
Handy Haversack:

Seems like there are plenty of terrorists to counter if you're willing to let your algorithm look at white people.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:44pm
listener james from westwood:

Gandalf: "They are not all accounted for, the lost seeing-stones! We do not know who may be watching!"
Zuck: "Why? Why should we fear to use it?" [begins spying on Harvard women]
Avatar 6:44pm
HyperDose:

@watchpocket Worst part is they can put them in SUVs and drive around and suck up everyone in a large gathering's juicy location data
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:45pm
watchpocket:

@HyperDose Bingo!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:46pm
Mark Hurst:

@James I like it. Sauron = Zuck; mouth of Sauron = Sandberg; Saruman = Dorsey; Palantir = Palantir.
Avatar 6:46pm
HyperDose:

Have you ever seen Takedown (Hackers 2 to the cultists)? This book covered the story that inspired the movie: www.amazon.com...
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:47pm
Handy Haversack:

"Palantir = Palantir" [takes notes ...]
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:47pm
listener james from westwood:

Hah! Wormtongue = the FAANG lobbyists
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:48pm
Mark Hurst:

@James I'm sure we could come up with 9 Silicon Valley VCs to be the Nazgul
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:48pm
listener james from westwood:

Gríma Wormtoungue: "Why do you lay these troubles on an already troubled mind?" ::slides tech-deregulation bill in front of Dianne Feinstein::
  6:50pm
Zetti:

Best documentary I've seen recently as far as content. I think this film may be hard to find, but worth the effort.

The Cleaners (2018). Dir. Hans Block www.imdb.com...
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:50pm
listener james from westwood:

"The Nine have left South by Southwest. They crossed the River Isen under a full moon clad as riders in hoodies."
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:50pm
melinda:

No Tinfoil Hat Required should be the title of something
Avatar 6:51pm
dan in wisconsin:

Wire - Eardrum Buzz as an outro song? (:
  6:51pm
-Ken:

From Palantir’s website:

PROTECT PRIVACY

Palantir was founded on the conviction that it's essential to preserve fundamental principles of privacy and civil liberties while using data. From our roots in counterterrorism to our current work spanning the public, private, and non-profit sectors, we've delivered software that incorporates principles of privacy by design.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:53pm
PaulRobeson1920:

LBJ’s “war on poverty” is officially spelled with lower case letters. Compared with the Nixon admin’s “War On Drugs” officially spelled with uppercase letters. One intended to be impermanent and the other is intended to be permanent.


The surveillance and harms associated with over policing is directly related to these bad public policies. These antiquated laws justify the enormous police budgets (while schools and hospitals go neglected) and create the black market that exacerbates and brings to life the very things the 1970 Controlled Substance Act claims to be combating!

lawenforcementactionpartnership.org...
  6:54pm
David in London:

And which data to exclude quietly...
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:55pm
Handy Haversack:

Great guest! Thanks, Mark and Prof. Brayne!
Avatar 6:56pm
northguineahills:

Thanks, Mark and Sarah!
Avatar 6:56pm
HyperDose:

Thank you Mark, Sarah, and techies. Riveting radio and conversation!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:56pm
Bas NL:

Thanks Mark! Great work Sarah Brayne!
  6:56pm
David in London:

Thanks Mark.
Avatar 6:56pm
Constance De Witt:

Thank you Mark and Sarah for the interview.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:57pm
Richy4619:

.·´¯`(>▂<)´¯`·.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:57pm
Webhamster Henry:

Great Interview! Another for the Techtonic Bookshelf, I guess.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:58pm
listener james from westwood:

Thanks, Mark!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:58pm
melinda:

thanks Mark!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:58pm
a polished polish lady:

<3 :(
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:58pm
coelacanth∅:

Thanks Mark Thanks Sarah!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:59pm
Mark Hurst:

Thanks, everyone! Appreciate the comments this evening.
  6:59pm
jshmlr:

Great show Mark!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:59pm
Ken From Hyde Park:

Thanks, Mark. Dan Bodah on the air and Julie on the dark web next tonight.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:59pm
WR:

thank you Mark!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 7:00pm
PaulRobeson1920:

Thank you Mark! & THANK YOU WFMU!
  7:00pm
Listener Robert:

Yay!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 7:40pm
WR:

PS: my partner went to the Guggenheim and they had surveillance robot active.
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